Posted by John_NorCal on 12/5/06 4:31pm
Msg #164042

Re: Message 163036 "Interesting Answer from CA SOS"

Larry posted a response that he received from the SOS office. The thread discussed the practice of splitting hairs on ID's, with Brenda_TX giving her insight as to how she handles ID that may not be exact as to the documents presented.
Following is my e-mail and the response from the SOS office. (Edited for ease of reading.)

-----Original Message-----
From: John Gonzalez
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:09 AM
To: [e-mail address]
Subject: Another Question


Thank you for your past help. I have another question.

A person presents ID as John Doe, a document contains the name Jhonny Doe or Johnny Doe. Can that document be properly notarized with the ID that is presented?


Dear Mr. Gonzalez,

There is nothing in the law that specifically says you can or cannot. I can only refer you to Civil Code section 1185 (3) which states "Reasonable reliance of the presentation to the officer..." It is normally reasonable to believe that if "Chris" is on the document, is short for Christine, which is on the identification, however if the id shows just Chris, the document could show Christina, Christine, Christopher, etc. Again, you need to have reasonable reliance that the person appearing before you is the same person who signed the document.

Mary Ingham
Notary Public Section

Reply by Larry/Ca on 12/5/06 5:47pm
Msg #164075

Re: Message 163036 "Interesting Answer from CA SOS"

Well John,

I certainly like that answer. And "Reasonable reliance of the presentation to the officer" would certainly support Brenda's position on this matter. The many, many posts here on this issue and widespread acceptance of the 'less than but not more than' rule by California notaries seems an unnecessary concern if we were to go with Mary Inghams response to your question.

It is unsettling to me when I know I have the right signer in front of me by virtue of a photo, description, and birthday match and think that law doesn't allow me to notarize his signature because of a discrepancy in the printed name.

If it really is 'Normal and reasonable to believe......' than it would seem difficult to prove, as required by law, that a notary was guilty of negligence or misconduct for failure to establish proper identity. By law the burden of proof is on the person filing for damages against the notary.

I've been unable to get an e-mail response on this issue fom the SOS, wonder why?

Thanks for sharing John, Larry

Reply by Joe Ewing on 12/5/06 6:00pm
Msg #164077

Re: Message 163036 "Interesting Answer from CA SOS"

Same "reasonable" answer I got from them (SOS) 8 years ago.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 12/5/06 11:39pm
Msg #164176

Re: Message 163036 "Interesting Answer from CA SOS"

It has been proven again and again that the CA SOS falls short in answering the tough questions about identification. John's post just is another example.

An attorney, in a court of law however, would have no problem identifying where a notary went wrong.

Good ID practices, in my humble opinion (and after 4 commissions) are a "sum total" of several things:

1. Does the physical description match the signer?
2. Does the photograph match the signer?
3. Does the name on the docs and ID fall reasonably within the (loose) standards of the SOS?
4. Does the physical address match the property?
5. Does the ID look like most CA ID's you have seen? (eg. no fakes)

In my experience, there are (sadly) many TC notaries that just want to sign 'em up. It's also my experience that the professional notaries here are just excellent in what they do and new people should gobble up their advice, have lots of E&O insurance, and be very, very wary of SS's who pressure them (or TC's that pressure them) when they are uncomfortable with ID.

Listen to that inner voice and use good judgement. There's a reason that the SOS does a background check (Dept. of Justice...as a matter of fact) before they issue a commission. They want to know a potential notary knows their stuff, and is clear of criminal infractions. Be saavy, and remember you're self employed. There's no big brother to rescue you if you don't take your commission seriously and act accordingly.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 12/6/06 10:47am
Msg #164256

Hear, hear! n/m