Posted by TitleGalCA on 12/13/06 12:37am
Msg #165518

a Poll the current trends and the NSA professional

In my local office (my only gauge in this area) I'm finding several things:

TC employees have lost their after hour signings, and the contract NSA's are begging for more.

Those escrow personnel who counted on that supplement to their income (signings) are taking drastic measures to supplement their income. This tells me ONE Thing: the company I work for isn't even paying a living wage to professional escrow people.

Our company Christmas party was cancelled. In over twenty years of business working for a TC, this shocked me. I've never seen this happen. All the 'biggies' in southern california (Fatco, Chicago, Fidelity) that I've worked for never, never cancelled a company Christmas party.

The market must return to reasonable, I agree and it's my opinion that it will take several years, in part to the inflated appraisals that those individual appraisers have to be held responsible for, the frenzy to just "buy anything" without regard to value, and mainly the lenders who created this position in the first place (that's worth several pages...but won't go there right now).

I think we're in for at least a four year stabilizing period and could be extended with the change of power in government.

How are all you completely independent, self-employed notaries dealing with this? Are you staying strong with a few good clients...contemplating other venues...thinking of buying a lawnmower and doing landscaping maintence?

If it's affecting solid people with solid positions, you guys must be feeling that pinch.

Just hoping all is well and you're surviving in this tough market. It might be good to offer up alternatives.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 12/13/06 2:02am
Msg #165534

Well we all knew it was coming. Less loans. I guess the association wrong about USA needing all those NSA's. Some of the other Notary / Loan Signing instructors that read this BB can chime in too. Lately I have had classes FULL of mortgage professionals and Appraisers becoming NSA's. First I thought they were anticipating an upswing but now I'm not to sure. When an Appraiser, Real Estate Agent or Escrow Officer WANTS to be an NSA is when pigs fly.

To their credit some Notarys have developed a thriving Notary business that does not involve home loans at all. Unfortunatly for the NSA this takes years of personal service and dollars spent on advertising to develop a loyal local client base. People latch on to Notaries the way they do mechanics, dentists, doctors and housekeepers.

Who would have thought?

Reply by Susan Fischer on 12/13/06 4:28am
Msg #165536

What a great issue...seems to me that this very point

establishes our credibility.

Fewer (solid) signings with premium rates v. massive questionable 'wing and a prayer' signings hoping 'not to cancel.'

I see it getting desperate out there.

Interest rates held today at five something.

Starts are down.

Refinance of variable rates is on the increase.

New products are emerging: 40-50 + year loans are on the rise.

Ballons, interest only, and boutique packages are likewise on the rise.

Signing Services are vulnerable because they are middlepeople.

I'm thinking Union.

We need a sensible, productive, and economically stabilizing fee structure for NSAs.

F**k the NSA. They are in bed with everybody but the Notary Signing Agent.

A Unions has a legal department, negotiators, and creds.

I've been wanting to broach this subject for four years, and just had the inspriation to go public.

Since we all know the principle *hit rolls downhill, we all know the NSA is that 'end' participator and therefore the scapegoat (for missed title/lender/SS docs). We are, in a huge majority of NSA professionals. entitled to a say - a contract - to set the terms of this contract (K)...and we need to be united in the minimum pay for this job.

Recognizing and, if you will, establishing a basic fee structure, plus various stipulations (i.e., fax-back, split package, copying requirements, etc, backed up by a legal department and strong leadership, Notary Signing Agents could join the ranks of the Appraiser, who, always gets paid up front, no matter the outcome of the transaction.

Someone mentioned the 'hint' of price-fixing. No. Deciding a minimum wage is not fixing a price, it is, in the American economic tradition, establishing a value for services, in keeping with modern economic models. IMHO, it goes back to the Protestant Work Ethic: a day's pay for a day's work.

We know what it costs to print a page/deliver documents.
We know what it costs to start our cars.
We know what it costs to educate ourselves.
We know what it costs to comply with state and federal laws.
We should know our worth.

An idea up for debate.

Reply by Ndwa on 12/13/06 6:24am
Msg #165539

I'm confuses, Susan

???"F**k the NSA. They are in bed with everybody but the Notary Signing Agent." ????

Am I reading right or you typed wrong?

***Someone mentioned the 'hint' of price-fixing. No. Deciding a minimum wage is not fixing a price, it is, in the American economic tradition, establishing a value for services, in keeping with modern economic models. IMHO, it goes back to the Protestant Work Ethic: a day's pay for a day's work.***

Don't forget you're the LC price dictator until they can replaced you.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 12/13/06 7:27am
Msg #165543

I'm a pessimist, and I LOVE to be wrong!

There are too many nights-and-weekends wannabes who do signings as a paying hobby. They drive prices down, but don't care because they will just move on to something else while we try to earn a living in our chosen profession. We've all had (and heard) horror stories.

Price fixing is a serious charge. Be prepared.

Attorney-only closings are increasing. The attorneys don't want NSAs taking their fees. Be prepared for stiff opposition from the legal lobby.

Reply by SusanOH on 12/13/06 8:14am
Msg #165549

Re: This is MY GIG and I love it!!!!

With the new law being passed for the state of OH, I believe it will weed out quite a few people that aren't either willing to pay the premium for real E&O or underwriting may not pass them due to inexperience. It will be interesting to see what shakes out.
As far as how I'm coping, I offer great service to my clients, I pay alot to advertise in the places that have served me well, and I have alot of companies that call me first, I know because I ask. I do alot of marketing even now being in the business going on 4 years, I go the xtra mile for my customers as long as it is legal and ethical and they know that. I'm getting offered more money doing less closings, it's evening out. I'll make what I made last year maybe a little more, because I'm on target to have a record month even with the holidays , go figure, but I've been busy alot this month. I think even attempting to form a union is a serious mistake and could end up with more attorney only states, they would be all too happy to do these closings at a much higher premium I may add. As a matter of fact I did a loan in an attorney office once, and he metioned to me, he'd like to do more closings, could I tell him some of the companies I do business with, I simply smiled and changed the subject. Competition is everywhere, know your market.... I share my info with a network that I belong to, we all refer work to each other, it works out quite well.

Reply by Accesstoledo on 12/13/06 10:53am
Msg #165578

Re: This is MY GIG and I love it!!!!

Congrats!!
I agree with you.
I"m also busy as can be. Happy Holidays
[e-mail address]

Reply by MistarellaFL on 12/13/06 8:33am
Msg #165551

Susan, NSA=Notary Signing Agent.

Did I miss something, or did you?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 12/13/06 8:37am
Msg #165553

Re: Susan, NSA=Notary Signing Agent.

I meant Susan Fischer.
I think she may have gotten NSA confused with NNA, LOL.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 12/13/06 5:38pm
Msg #165739

Mistarella - my confusion knew no bounds <sheepish grin> n/m

Reply by ericashaw on 12/13/06 8:33am
Msg #165552

Unions

I work for the teamsters union. Let me tell you something. Unions are not the way to go if you have independant representation. I we ran the union that would be different. The teamsters do nothing but protect the weak. If you do your job you will do nothing more than donate your money to the union your whole career. They don't care about us, they care about the union and how much of our money they are getting.

I agree that we need to have some sort of fee standard to keep people from undercutting all of us but we could do that without having a union. IMO

Reply by John_NorCal on 12/13/06 8:47am
Msg #165555

Re: Unions

Well, I won't go into the teamsters, having once been one myself. I have come to learn that as in anything else there are good unions and there are bad unions. As for unions in this field, it would never happen. The reason being, we are independent contractors not employees. If the NNA was not a profit making (no matter what they say) organization, they could function as a professional association carrying the banner for signing agents. Instead they are part of the problem by flooding the market with ill trained SA's with promises of riches to be made with little effort.

Reply by Nick_OH on 12/13/06 11:00am
Msg #165581

Re: Unions...IMO UNIONS REWARD MEDIOCRITY n/m

Reply by Nancy Korb on 12/13/06 1:05pm
Msg #165635

Re: Unions

I agree. Unions are not the way to go.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 12/13/06 9:42am
Msg #165563

Re: What a great issue...seems to me that this very point

F**k the NSA. They are in bed with everybody but the Notary Signing Agent.

A Unions has a legal department, negotiators, and creds.

I've been wanting to broach this subject for four years, and just had the inspriation to go public.

Since we all know the principle *hit rolls downhill, we all know the NSA is that 'end' participator and therefore the scapegoat (for missed title/lender/SS docs). We are, in a huge majority of NSA professionals. entitled to a say - a contract - to set the terms of this contract (K)...and we need to be united in the minimum pay for this job.

*****The topic of the thread is the declining mortgage market and the effect it is having on mortgage professionals*******

NSA = NOTARY SIGNING AGENT LOL I could use a date Susan.
UNIONS (WAY OFF THE SUBJECT) Bad idea that has been talked to death on every message board since 1999. Anyway, would my Union take 10 signings a month away from me and evenly distribute them to my less busy or experienced brothers and sisters? Bad idea that needs it's own thread if you want to blow some wind.

Decline in mortgages or to be more precise the decline in California home values will hurt the SoCal NSA that depends on assignments generated by out of state Loan Officers. For example nearly every Mortgage assignment I accepted last month was for refi or purchase of property outside of California. Big Title Companies that have developed internal signings services are starting to feel the pinch already. What if they discontinued booking their own loans and went pre 2002 and let the LO's find their own Notaries off 123 like they used to. Well they are already starting to again. Also since there is less local business, the producers are more and more looking for ways to eliminate the middle man (NSA). So classes are full of Real Estate agents and Loan Officers looking to fatten up the bottom line.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 12/13/06 12:12pm
Msg #165600

My apologies, All - Toothache, pain meds, and keyboard...

I'm so embarassed. An ounce of 'keep your mouth shut' is worth a pound of 'I wish I hadn't said that.' I'm very sorry, everyone.

Just got an email from NCS/ Placer Title saying that in an effort to 'move forward' because of the increasing pressure to lower settlement costs, they are lowering fees to a maximum of $75 and $15 for edocs. And while cognizant they are still paying more than competitors, are aware that some NSAs will decline this fee, but hope to continue their professional relationships.

Last week busy, this week slow. Because I do this full time and love my work, I'll hang in there for the duration, but may have to invest in a lawnmower to supplement income.

Reply by Ndwa on 12/13/06 1:07pm
Msg #165636

NCS...

I stop working with them long ago when they tried to squeze my fee to fraction of a dollar based on the theory of 1/2 on the second.

Reply by John_NorCal on 12/13/06 2:28pm
Msg #165672

Re: My apologies, All - Toothache, pain meds, and keyboard...

Don't worry Skipper (remember that?) you needn't apologize. As for NCS, tell them to stuff it. They do not establish my fees nor yours. If people would just keep their eyes and ears open, then they would see what is the "going rate" in any given area. You stated it yourself with what NCS wants to pay. I wouldn't do an e-doc signing for $90.00 either.

Hope your tooth feels better!

Reply by Nancy Korb on 12/13/06 1:01pm
Msg #165630

Re: What a great issue...seems to me that this very point

This is exactly what I'm talking about. We're all so worried about the competition, that we're allowing ourselves to be priced out of the market. The signing companies can make arbitrary rules that steal our fees, simply because we feel that we are powerless in this. It doesn't even have to be our error, but we can be blamed for it, forced to go back out on a second trip and still not be paid, because as notaries, we are legally bound. They have us coming and going.

We need to establish a general price range within which each of us will work. Then we need to create and establish what is acceptable and what is not. Legally a signing company cannot make one contract with you on the telephone and then establsh procedures that change that contract after the job has been done. I've run across several who state that they will not pay under certain circumstances, but they don't say it up front BEFORE they use my gasoline, my equipment, my ink and my expertise. That is not legal, they know it and we've been accepting it, or it wouldn't have gotten to this point. We need to become a respectable occupation, not the real estate dumping ground.