Posted by Sara_NV on 2/23/06 8:14pm
Msg #99421

Non-Real Estate Loan Notary Question

I've been asked to notarize a document that will be signed by a woman who has suffered a brain injury. I know this woman personally, so verifying identity is not an issue. I have not seen her since her injury, but I'm told that she "pretty much" understands what's going on. she's currently in a rehab facility. The document that she'll be signing is something that states her wishes that if her husband should pass away, she authorizes her adult sister and brother to make decisions for her (if she can't) so she does not become a ward of the state. I realize the contents of the document are not my concern, but to what steps do I need to go to to reasonably ascertain that she understands what she's signing? Thanks for your help.

Reply by Cris_AR on 2/23/06 8:21pm
Msg #99429

I would not feel comfortable, "pretty much" would not work for me.
I have had 2 members of my family suffer brain injury, both had good days and bad days and it was hard to determine at times if they were really home kwim?

Reply by Ernest__CT on 2/23/06 8:25pm
Msg #99430

Since you know her personally, it will actually be a lot easier than if the signer were a stranger.

Hold a conversation with the signer. Is she oriented in time and space? That is, does she know what year and month it is? Chat about recent events that both of you have experienced, or at least read about. Does she know where she is (i.e., that she's in the specific rehab facility, and why)? Does she understand what she's signing?

Good luck!

Reply by Janlee_MI on 2/23/06 8:28pm
Msg #99431

Also ask her simple questions. Like who the president is. What day of the week it is. And ask her what she is signing. This is enough. This says that she knew what she was signing at the time.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 2/23/06 8:34pm
Msg #99436

"Good days and bad days" ...

... may, indeed, be a factor. When a social worker was interviewing my mother during her final hospital stay, I had to convince my mother that the conversation was serious and she had to show that she knew where she was (and why), who I was, and what had been happening recently. For us, I asked Mother to tell the social worker where I'd been the previous evening ("a meeting" and why ("to talk about stopping destruction of [wetland]". I then pulled out the day's newspaper which listed the meeting held the previous evening. The social worker was convinced.

If the signer talks about the old days as if they were current times, worry. If the signer doesn't know you, worry.

Make sure that the signer is not being coerced!

Reply by Ernest__CT on 2/23/06 8:35pm
Msg #99438

Those weren't supposed to be emoticons!

They were supposed to be closing quotes and parentheses!

Reply by TitleGalCA on 2/23/06 9:01pm
Msg #99443

Re: Those weren't supposed to be emoticons!

I have the same problem Ernest. I thought Harry posted an emoticon help page, but I haven't found it yet.

Reply by Les_CO on 2/23/06 9:41pm
Msg #99454

Ernest

Sounds like questions a SS ask a potential SA! Or what a SA should ask a LO! Just kidding, really good advise

Reply by TitleGalCA on 2/23/06 8:30pm
Msg #99432

That's a tough one Sara. If it were me, I would rely on my personal knowledge of her (before the accident/injury); what else can you rely on?

You could revisit your state's handbook about requirements or contact an attorney or her doctor, but IMO you'd be in a very good position to know whether or not she understands what she is signing based on your prior knowledge of her.

Definitely a tough situation, but I'd hope that if it were me in her shoes, someone who knew me before such an injury would be able to notarize my signature.

My opinion only - take whatever steps you feel necessary to feel confident about your being able to notarize her.

Reply by Becca_FL on 2/23/06 9:25pm
Msg #99448

I did a signing once with an elderly couple that had a daughter that was scytzophranic. (sp) The 30-something gal was on medication to control her disorder, but the medication was not a sedative. The woman pretty much stayed at home, in her room and watched TV all day; she was fine at home in familiar surroundings with her parents. Her parents told me she just could not get along in society. The gal had not been adjudicated or diagnosed mentally incapacitated.

When I was done with Mom & Dad the gal came downstairs and I started to question her. She was very in tune with things, such as, date, President and why she was signing the mtg. She said "Mom & Dad don't want me kicked out on the streets if they die." Then, she went into a conversation about Jerry Springer and how she just loved his show and the crazy people he has as guests. Who can argue that one?

The sad thing to me is that there are better ways to deal with these situations, but I can not discuss, as I am not an atty.

Reply by Mike_IA on 2/24/06 11:26am
Msg #99593

Who drafted this document? Was it a do-it-yourself job by

the woman's sister and brother? If the document was drafted by a lawyer then I would let the lawyer or the lawyer's staff notarize it. If it was a do-it-yourself creation by the family then I would not notarize it at all. I always tell people who create their own wills, trusts, deeds, etc. that while they might save a few dollars upfront if it's drafted poorly the cost to correct their mistakes later will be much more than paying to have it done correctly by a lawyer to start with.