Posted by MBCA on 2/26/06 3:22pm
Msg #100121

Signing From Hell!

Had is signing last night where the borrower refused to sign just as the her name was printed on the docs (M. Doe instead of Mary Doe). We went around and around! She said it wouldn't be legal because she always signs her name M. Doe, even thought her name is Mary Doe!! I expained that I understood that, but she needed to sign exactly as the docs were printed. She finally started putting M. Doe, Mary Doe!. She said that if her loan did not close it would be my fault I tried to get someone on the phone last night, but couldn't get anyone! If the lender knew that she went by M. Doe, why the devil didn't they put that on the docs!
There was also a Grant Deed and DOT that had Mary Doe on both. If her legal handle is M. Doe why in the world didn't those 2 docs reflect that.

Reply by Leon_CO on 2/26/06 3:30pm
Msg #100122

Just curious. What name was on the ID that she showed you?

Reply by Shane_OH on 2/26/06 3:31pm
Msg #100123

Some lenders, will allow a borrower to sign a different way, as long as a signature name affidavit shows both signatures.

I usually instruct the borrower to sign as indicated on the papers, and then tell them the signature name affidavit will reflect the way they may actually sign.

Reply by MBCA on 2/26/06 3:35pm
Msg #100127

There was no Signature Name Affidavit! Even so what about the DOT and Grant Deed!

Reply by MBCA on 2/26/06 3:34pm
Msg #100126

Her name was: Mary Margaret Doe!

Reply by Leon_CO on 2/26/06 3:38pm
Msg #100129

** Her name was: Mary Margaret Doe! **

I was just wondering if you were using a fictitious name in your post. Wonder if she has a brother named "John"?

Reply by Rick_NY on 2/26/06 3:35pm
Msg #100128

> If her legal handle is M. Doe why in the world didn't those 2 docs reflect that?

Because "M. Doe" is in all likelihood NOT her "legal handle."

A common problem with ignorant borrowers. Makes me nuts. She is just too friggin' lazy to sign her full name on 30 or 40 pieces of paper.

Was her driver license "M. Doe?"

If the deed was prepared with the name "Mary Doe," she needs to sign that way on the mtg and NORTC, etc. If she gave a credit app, probably over the phone, as "Mary Doe" then that is how she ought to sign the credit-related documents. A clerk could reject the mortgage if signed "M. Doe." Maybe it was Margaret Doe or Misty Doe who signed?

"aka" affidavits generally cover this situation.

Seriously, when she greeted you at the door, did she say, "Hi, I'm M.?"

Does she think she is 007's boss?

**End Of Rant**

Reply by MsRobbo on 2/26/06 3:58pm
Msg #100130

These borrowers either make me nuts or they are nuts!!! The signature affadavit would clear up the name issue, but since you didn't have one and couldn't reach anyone it's NOT your fault if the borrowers wants to argue over her legal name. If her name is Margaret Mary Doe then that's how she should sign. None of my borrowers ever complain about the way that they should sign. Maybe she had PMS or just felt like being _itchy and she took it out on you.

Reply by Rick_NY on 2/26/06 4:00pm
Msg #100131

Some lenders would have you adjourn the closing. n/m

Reply by MBCA on 2/26/06 4:43pm
Msg #100133

I'm concerned that she'll hold be responsible if it doesn't

close. The documents have M. Doe, Mary Doe on them!

Reply by Rick_NY on 2/26/06 5:02pm
Msg #100134

should be OK... can you put 'aka' in there?

> The documents have M. Doe, Mary Doe on them!

I think I would have done that, sitting in my Monday morning q/b chair. I once had a person sign a statement that she refused to sign the way the docs were printed. It worked out.

Reply by RayC_TX on 2/26/06 5:59pm
Msg #100138

Be glad it wasnt Liz Taylor ... n/m

Reply by John_NorCal on 2/26/06 8:44pm
Msg #100150

I had a borrower a few weeks back who signed all her docs Annie H (with the "H" trailing off to a slight line" instead of Annie H*******. I asked her if that is how she always signed her name and she acknowledge that was the case. Even her driver's license was signed that way, so I wasn't really bothered by that. Loan closed with no problem.

Reply by Rick_NY on 2/26/06 9:00pm
Msg #100151

I don't think that's quite the same issue. MBCA had an iriitial problem, not a a style or penmanship issue.

Reply by Kate/CA on 2/26/06 9:30pm
Msg #100152

I love it when the borrower say, but that won't be my.....

legal signature. What makes one signature legal over another one. I sign my notary ack as
K Smith, my checks as Kate Smith and my IRS refund as Kate Smith-Jones.

Reply by PAW on 2/27/06 6:06am
Msg #100170

Re: I love it when the borrower say, but that won't be my...

>>> What makes one signature legal over another one. <<<

I asked this very question to our Sec'y of State when I had a signer who used a facsimile stamp. I was told that a person's legal signature is whatever they say it is and what they use in a consistent and customary manner. That is, if the D/L, checks, etc. all show the same signature, then by usage and by statement, that is their "official" and legal signature. YMMV

Reply by RayC_TX on 2/27/06 7:01am
Msg #100178

Notary Commission

In the case of a Notary, the legal signature would be what is on your commission certificate and stamp. At least in Texas, infact if the notary does not sign a document to be notarized as is on thier certificate and stamp, the notarization is void.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/27/06 10:51am
Msg #100215

Re: Notary Commission - Ray...

"In the case of a Notary, the legal signature would be what is on your commission certificate and stamp. At least in Texas, infact if the notary does not sign a document to be notarized as is on thier certificate and stamp, the notarization is void. "

Ray, I know you are correct about how we are supposed to sign our name when we notarize. But, I did not know that the notarization would be voided. If you can tell me where to find that in the law I would appreciate it.

From time to time I review the recordings at the county clerk's office and have taken note that deeds are recorded with one notary, in particular, whose seal is Mary Smith and she signs her name Mary S. Jones, for instance. If the notarial certificate is void because of her signature, the clerk should be made aware that such certificates are void, I should think.

I do know that signing the wrong name is a prohibited act with all the warnings, etc., (noted below) but I have never read where the Tx Law voids a notary's certificate because of notary error or stupidity. I would be very much interested in finding out where that is. It would make for interesting notary article content to go on my website.

Thanks - Brenda



PROHIBITED ACTS

THE SECTION BELOW PROVIDES A NOTARY PUBLIC WITH A LIST OF PROHIBITED ACTS THAT A NOTARY PUBLIC MAY NOT DO IN CARRYING OUT THE DUTIES OF THE NOTARY'S OFFICE. IF A NOTARY PUBLIC PERFORMS ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ACTS, THE NOTARY MAY BE SUBJECT TO POSSIBLE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION, CIVIL LIABILITY, AND THE REVOCATION OR SUSPENSION OF THE NOTARY'S NOTARY PUBLIC COMMISSION.

A Notary Public may not:

-perform acts, which constitute the practice of law;
-prepare, draft, select, or give advice concerning legal documents;
-use the phrase "notario" or "notario publico" to advertise notary services;
-overcharge for notary public services;
-notarize a document without the signer being in the notary's presence;
-notarize the notary's own signature;
-issue identification cards;
-sign a notarial certificate under any other name than the one under which the notary was commissioned; or
-certify copies of documents recordable in the public records

Reply by Kelly M Robertson on 2/27/06 7:01am
Msg #100179

I Don't See the Big Deal

I don't know about anywhere else, but in California, we are not "The Notary Police" and the AKA affid has nothing to do with nothing as far as CA Notarial Law is concerned.

Just do the best you can and direct your signer the best you can. If the line says MM Doe, then direct them to sign that way. If it says Mary M. Doe, then that's the way you direct them to sign. If they don't want to cooperate, ask them to write a note so you get paid. It's not uncommon that the escrow docs and loan docs are drawn up a little differently -- depends on the 1003 and other forms.

Just make sure your notarizations are 100 percent accurate. K I S S works best in these and all signings. kelly

Reply by RayC_TX on 2/27/06 7:04am
Msg #100180

^5 on that ! n/m

Reply by MBCA on 2/27/06 10:26am
Msg #100211

Re: Kelly You're So Right!

We're not the signature police and if they don't want to sign the way the signatures are printed and you've explained why it's necessary to do so, then just have them right a note saying they won't sign as directed and put it in the package. Sometimes you can get so close to a problem you can't see you're way out. It's too late for this one, but I'll remember when I come across this situation next time! Many Thanks! P.S. Why are some people so pig headed?

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/27/06 12:17pm
Msg #100257

Re: I Don't See the Big Deal

I'll have to agree here. We can't force anybody to sign a specific way. I simply tell them to sign the way that their name is printed on the docs, then however they sign is however they sign. I think in over 2000 signings I've only had one occasion where they wanted the docs resigned because the woman didn't include her middle inital. That comes out to about .0005% of my signings, certainly not a number that I'm going to waste any time worrying about.

Reply by Tina_MA on 2/27/06 5:15pm
Msg #100354

The quickest way to resolve this situation is to tell the borrower that they will need to sign as an AKA (M Doe aka Mary Doe) on *every* document due to the name difference.

I have yet to have a borrower decide to sign the aka, they always acquiesce and sign their first and last name on every document.

End of problem.

Reply by SatomiCO on 2/27/06 10:49pm
Msg #100469

Re: She said that if her loan did not close it would be my

fault ...

If that were the case and she refused to sign as the docs per printed, I would have stopped the signing right then and there.