Posted by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/23/06 1:49pm
Msg #99308

URGENT! State of NY Post Dating question

Is it legal in NY to Post date closing docs (date signed earlier than docs are dated)?

This is John at SLB Signing; need answer for today's closing

Reply by ColleenCA on 2/23/06 1:58pm
Msg #99310

Re: Are you asking if it is legal to backdate? If so, NOT n/m

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/23/06 2:01pm
Msg #99312

Re: Are you asking if it is legal to backdate? If so, NOT

Not asking to 'backdate' (actual date is later than doc date).

Am asking about 'predating' (actual date is before the doc date).

Is it legal in NY

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/23/06 2:03pm
Msg #99313

We do know that backdating is illegal and would never ask a

closer to do that...This situation is that our client wants the closer to close the loan today and date the docs for the 27th.....According to our clients legal department this is NOT Illegal.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 2/23/06 2:11pm
Msg #99318

Re: We do know that backdating is illegal and would never as

Sherry the only thing I would suggest is that you scour the NY handbook for procedure on acks and jurats and see if they jive with the request. It might be that postdating for the lender or title may be ok. But if one must sign and date a document to be notarized it must comply with whatever notarial law for the state is.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/23/06 2:13pm
Msg #99319

Re: We do know that backdating is illegal and would never as

I am on hold with the Department of State right now to see what they have to say....Thanks SaraBeth

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 2/23/06 2:13pm
Msg #99320

Re: We do know that backdating is illegal and would never ask a

Personally, I would never date anything but the actual date.
I don't know about the laws in NY, but I look at it this way...

Borrowers sign on 1/25, but date everything 1/27.

Tragically, the borrowers die on 1/26.

How is the notary going to explain to the court that they signed on the 27th, when they died on the 26th?

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/23/06 2:16pm
Msg #99322

Re: We do know that backdating is illegal and would never ask a

I totally get what you are saying but I could swear that I saw somewhere on here that in one of the states it was legal to do it..just throwing it out there

Reply by ColleenCA on 2/23/06 2:18pm
Msg #99328

Re: Didn't mean to imply that you would....

it was just the way the initial question was worded made it sound that way to me. Good luck and let us know what you find out.

Reply by Regal1 on 2/23/06 2:16pm
Msg #99324

Re: We do know that backdating is illegal and would never ask a

Why would the notary have to explain anything if the signatures and journal are dated 1/25?

Reply by cmd_NH on 2/23/06 2:18pm
Msg #99327

Re: Jersey Boy has a point....

If you can't backdate because you have to use the date that they signed in front of you, then how could you post date? Point is they are signing in front of you on 2/23, then the date of ack or jurat is dated 2/23. Only makes sense. JMHO!

Reply by Phyllis Kemp-Thomas dba Road Runner Notary Service on 2/23/06 2:53pm
Msg #99339

Re: We do know that backdating is illegal and would never ask a

You should never have clients date documents on any other date than they actually sign them in your presence. It's a matter of ethics and it's your notary commission that's on the line.

I totally agree with Jersey Boy.

Reply by davidK on 2/23/06 3:14pm
Msg #99347

Re: We do know that backdating is illegal and would never ask a

And if the borrower dies suddenly between today and the document date then what?

What you and the lender are asking for is wrong, wrong, wrong. The Notary would be subscribing under oath that an event (the signing of documents in front of the Notary) occured AFTER it really happened.

Get another client to replace this unethical one, and don't ask any Notary to backdate or frontdate, or do anything illegal, immoral or fattening.

Reply by Becca_FL on 2/23/06 2:20pm
Msg #99329

The borrowers can date the docs any darn day they want, but we can only Notarize the docs for the day they are being signed and/or acknowledged before us.

Reply by Nd_WA on 2/23/06 2:30pm
Msg #99333

Ditto Becca and

What's the point of keeping a chronological journal?

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/23/06 7:30pm
Msg #99395

Exactly, it's such a simple answer.

If the borrowers and lender want to date every document 3 years from now, what do I care? The notarized documents will have today's date, the legality of the rest of it isn't our concern.

Reply by MelissaCT on 2/23/06 2:27pm
Msg #99331

Misunderstand question

I think the question has been misunderstood. The way I'm reading the original question is: Can the documents be signed on a date before the date of the document? i.e., date on docs reads 2/28/06, signing to take place on 2/27/06...is that the question?

Reply by Nd_WA on 2/23/06 2:32pm
Msg #99335

Re: Misunderstand question

SLB wrote, "This situation is that our client wants the closer to close the loan today and date the docs for the 27th...."

Reply by cmd_NH on 2/23/06 2:35pm
Msg #99336

Re: Misunderstand question

Borrower signs the docs today, but according to the date on the docs they were not drawn up until the 27th...what's wrong with this pic....How can you sign docs before they are drawn up.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 2/23/06 3:00pm
Msg #99342

Re: Misunderstand question

Docs can have an effective date so yes they can be drawn up on 2/22 and be dated 2/23.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/23/06 6:29pm
Msg #99390

Just so you guys know - I wasnt going to do it if it

wasnt legal...I was just curious to see what you guys woudl say considering that the legal counsel for this title company was trying to say it was legal. I am very familiar with the law in the State of FL but was trally unsure for NY. Anyway...the situation was resolved WITHOUT going this route...Thanks for all of the input! Have a great evening

Reply by Jon on 2/23/06 10:27pm
Msg #99460

Re: Misunderstand question

"Borrower signs the docs today, but according to the date on the docs they were not drawn up until the 27th...what's wrong with this pic....How can you sign docs before they are drawn up."

The date on the docs has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not the docs have been drawn up. Anyone with a computer can whip up any doc with any date past, present or future. If you have the docs physically in hand, they exist and have obviously been drawn up. Whether or not the date effects the legality of the docs is another question altogether, and outside our realm of responsibility.

Dated this 28th day of February, 2010. Oops, I guess you can't read this post because it hasn't been written until the date I just typed.

Maybe I should date this the 28th of February, 1906, since I wasn't born yet how could I have written this post??

With two dates, I wonder which one is correct? Was this post written 100 yrs ago, or does it not yet exist? Decisions, decisions, which one will you choose?