Posted by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/3/06 12:07pm
Msg #93828

What wouldl you do if you were me?

I had a closer who was set to do a signing (with a new client) the other night for us. We have worked with this person before and were confident of her work. She started printing the docs and apparently they were printing really slow....At 8:45pm, she decided to contact my client, the broker and the borrowers to tell them that she would not be able to do the closing because the docs were printing too slow.

I get a call the next morning from my client who was absolutely livid (as was the broker). She wanted us to get another closer to go out and backdate the docs. We said that we could not do that because it was illegal. We decided to eat $150 to get a new closer to go out with redrawn docs. I did that because it was the right thing to do but I am extremely perturbed over this situation.

Does anyone think that closers should be held accountable for these types of things? I am not sure why I should eat money for someone elses mistakes (and this is not the 1st time this has happend, I ate $800 in courier fees last year because closers neglected to put Purchase docs in drop box on time)....I am just interested to see your opinions on this..Thanks

Reply by Charm_AL on 2/3/06 12:10pm
Msg #93832

I'd ream the notary and find out why she didn't contact you first. That was pretty unprofessional, but unfortunately it goes with the biz. Costly mistakes made by others on your expense is a shame.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 2/3/06 12:11pm
Msg #93833

She notified everyone but you???

She was wrong but I'm amazed that your client didn't call you immediately! At least you could have done the quick shuffle and got it done.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/3/06 12:14pm
Msg #93836

She left a message but it was already.....

8:30PM and our phones are only answered between 9am and 8pm EST....she did leave a message BUT even if we had answered the phones, finding another closer to fill her shoes at that hour would be a feat in itself....she was supposed to have already been at the closing when she dropped the ball

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/3/06 12:22pm
Msg #93846

She dropped the ball? Please.

How could she be at the closing if she didn't have docs to bring to the closing because they weren't printing correctly? You can't blame her for that.

I think we've all had technical difficulties printing docs at one time or another. It could have been the way the signing service scanned in the docs, she could have downloaded the new adobe upgrade that has a major flaw which causes things to print at an excrutiatingly slow pace, it could have been any number of things beyond her control.

If she had technical difficulties and tried to reach you but was unable to, I don't know if there was a whole lot more she could do. This kind of situation goes with the territory. Maybe you should start giving out an after hours emergency contact number. Yeah, it would have been best if she just went to the appointment late after all the docs managed to finish printing, but for all we know that could have taken another 2 hours.

You need to find out why the docs were printing so slow before you start pointing fingers of blame. Because that blame could very well be on the company that sent her the docs.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/3/06 12:28pm
Msg #93851

Just so you know CALI...the docs come directly from title..

not us so dont blame me...We also give the after hours number for our client since thedocs come directly from them. This same situation had happened to me when I was an SA and regardless of the time it took to print, I followed through with my obligation. I accepted the asignment and I completed it...The docs were printing fine it is just that they were taking too long...that is just no an excuse foor me..

It seems whaterver scenario I throw out there CALI, you choose to make me the bad guy. The sad part is that you truly have some good things to say sometimes but I think your arrogance overshadows all of that!!!!

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/3/06 12:35pm
Msg #93861

Re: Just so you know CALI...the docs come directly from titl

What in the hell are you talking about? I never said that the docs came from you or that it was your fault. The only thing I said that YOU could do would be to give out an after hours emergency contact number for yoiur company. If you're not willing to do that then don't get your panties in a bunch when somebody leaves you a message after hours.

And make up your mind. Were the docs printing fine or were they printing slow?

I don't even know why you posted this on the board. You've clearly made up your mind about this signing agent and situation already. Just another cry for attention from the neediest signing service out there.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/3/06 2:29pm
Msg #93927

You might wanna eat your words Cali

And I quote "It could have been the way the signing service scanned in the docs, she could have downloaded the new adobe upgrade that has a major flaw which causes things to print at an excrutiatingly slow pace, it could have been any number of things beyond her control"...Right out of your mouth buddie....

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 2/3/06 2:32pm
Msg #93928

Re: You might wanna eat your words Cali

Well just replace the word signing service with lo or tc and the point remains the same.

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/3/06 4:30pm
Msg #94018

OK, you got me

I meant lender, didn't realize I had written signing service.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/3/06 2:46pm
Msg #93935

Lets get real anyway Cali...

What could I have done to make the docs print faster??? And what could I have done at that late hour??Get a new SA? I highly doubt that. This SA was already in contact with the TC and the broker....I dont have some magic wand that I could have waved to make things go faster....My point is that you shouldnt just drop the ball on something...We have all been in this situation and yes it sucks but when you accept an assignment, the best thing to do is follow through with it. I am putting my faith in SA's when I give them closings...This situation may have cost me a huge client because of things that were out of my control...

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/3/06 4:46pm
Msg #94037

Re: Lets get real anyway Cali...

I don't disagree with you at all Sherry, there's really nothing you could have done.

My whole point was that there could have been a lot of other factors involved that we're not hearing about, which point the finger of blame away from the notary. Was she frustrated because she had been jjerked around by the TC or lender all day on when the docs were going to arrive? Did she have to come back from another signing to print out the docs that should have been available to print before she left?

You said she was still printing docs at 8:30, the time of the appointment. What time did she receive the docs? Most of us don't let the docs sit in our email box all day and then print them at the very last minute. What time did she start printing the docs? If she had to be at the appointment at 8:30, I would think that she would have started printing them at least an hour before, assuming they were available to print or that she was available to print them. So if an hour later they still hadn't completed printing I could certainly see the frustration of that. I'd probably be pretty close to throwing in the towel at that point myself.

Just because we agree to accept a signing does not mean we're agreeing to give you an unlimited amount of our time to get it done. Just because I'm available at 8:30 pm doesn't mean I'm going to be available at 9:30 pm.

It works both ways; as SA's we have to accept that edocs can sometimes create a huge hassle. But the TC's and lenders have to accept that by waiting until the very last possible minute to do these things, they're setting themselves up for the occasional situation like this to happen. If they're not giving us what we need to perform the job they hired us for in a timely manner, then they shouldn't be shocked when sometimes the job doesn't get done.

So in a nutshell, I can't say whether it's the SA's fault or not. If she had the docs at 3pm, no there's really no excuse for what happened. But if the docs showed up at 8pm, you really need to hold the TC or lender more responsible than the SA.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/3/06 5:06pm
Msg #94057

Is that really you Cali???? It cant be.....

you arent ridiculing me...Anyway thank you for your constructive criticism WITHOUT all of the other stuff....

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/3/06 5:18pm
Msg #94068

Re: Is that really you Cali???? It cant be.....

You're right, what was I thinking?

Just add this to the previous post: You're ugly and yo mama dresses you funny.

Reply by Dee_Fla on 2/3/06 4:48pm
Msg #94042

Re: Lets get real anyway Cali...

...Sherry you are right! I know I've been in that situation before too...where it printed slow...most of the time it is because they send it as a large file and not all printers can handle such large files (memory space). Sometimes, I have to unplug my printer to dump the memory. I always call the borrowers and let them know what is going on and also if I can reach the SA I let them know too.

Was this person new to the SA business? maybe she didnt now to dump her memory from her printer? Maybe she didnt realize she needed an upper version of whatever application she was using to open the docs and print from. Different programs work differently with printers, and may be she just didnt know. whatever the case would be, as I have had to do, is call technical support and that usally helps. Sometimes they resend it to me as a smaller file. but at least i compromise and I do communicate and i do get the doc's signed before midnight.

It may be just an educational thing on the SA's part. Nevertheless, she shouldnt had dropped the bomb cuz it was printing slow. As long as she notified the borrowers and got there, then she getsit done.

For me, at times if I know its gonna run late, I just run the original copy to have signed and then I let them know and i make copies at office max and give the copies to the borrower (at least they ahve a copy of their signatures and notary on hand and not blank pages). But compromise and get it done respectfully and quickly.

this is not a "poor me" post...its a real question of what we would do if we were in her shoe or even in the SA's shoe. That is what this board is here for...for us to share, learn and grow in this field. IF we are going to be critical...let's be respectfully and constructive critical and not insulting about it! Stop the conflicts! this board is NOT here for that!!!

Just my .2cents, if it matters!
D

Reply by Anonymous on 2/3/06 6:16pm
Msg #94094

Re: Lets get real anyway Cali...

I agree as a SA myself I have had problems with printing docs and I have never just dropped the ball I just call every number that I have been given, let them know the problem I was having and that I will be late. But I will be there I know that the company that sent me is counting on me and I don't want to loose the business. Because let's face it those of us who are not doing this for their health we need the $$. And not to mention your rep as a SA is going to be on the line.

Reply by Anonymous on 2/25/06 7:09pm
Msg #99989

Re: She dropped the ball? Please.

I have one signing agency that sends me docs that take 2 1/2 hours to 3 hours to print every single time. I don't feel that is my fault. This one lender is the only one I have a problem with. At first, it really cost me alot. I did alot of extra running to come back home for documents. If I had not had someone who could stand by the printer while I was doing my other signings, I would have been up until dawn.

I agree, you should have an after hours number. What was she to do? If you keep us up half the night because it takes a long time to print documents, you never want to pay us overtime. Would you work overtime for free?

Reply by Margaret_FL on 2/3/06 12:18pm
Msg #93840

I do not understand when this happens. When I was doing signings fulltime, I busted my butt to print the docs last minute and do the signings and then sometimes drove 24 miles 1-way to the FEDEX facility because last drop off was 7:45pm. Invested in setting up my car to be totally mobile with a printer and copier . Then to find out the loan did not close or and I did not get paid for EDOCs or my time. Even though I was not being paid extra to do this. Also for late Friday night closings, I took the package to FEDEX Kinkos which has a Saturday pick up at Noon. Thank God now, I am home for dinner with my family because they appreciate me more. I do my inspections from 8-4 and I am home by 5pm and make more in 1 day than I made all week

Reply by MistarellaFL on 2/3/06 12:19pm
Msg #93842

I, myself, would never cancel with a lender that did not hire me...I feel obligated (and rightly so I think) to contact the hiring party FIRST and foremost. I then let them decide what to do.
You may want to mention to your client that most likely the docs were downloaded as images, hence the slooow printing. But that's a moot point now. You may want to approach this closer to find out why he/she did not communicate with you, and advise that this is intolerable, as you may have (hope not) lost the account. There is a certain lack of communication with all SS, even the good ones. There has been a time when I have tried to contact a Ss with a problem, but never could get a return call. Never fouond out why, the only answer I recieved later was that they werre there and never rec'd the call/message. I know you're a good SS, but even knowing that, I know there are circumstances out of your control, out of your closers control, out of your lenders control. I'd speak to the closer first, to find out what the problem really is, before deciding what to do about the issue at hand. When you get his/her side, you'll be better prepared to make a decision about the situation.
Just my experience...

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/3/06 12:21pm
Msg #93843

We already got her side...

she simply didnt go because the printing was taking too long and she was frustrated. In addition she also admitted to laughing at both the broker and the borrowers when they were trying to resolve the issue

Reply by MistarellaFL on 2/3/06 12:25pm
Msg #93848

Laughing at them is unprofessional IMO

No need to laugh at the folks just trying to help her resolve it. I agree with the earlier post: you need an after hours number. Esp. for those who work on the east coast. And encourage those who send the docs to make sure they are not scanned as images. That seems to be a big problem even for some of the more experienced SA's

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/3/06 12:28pm
Msg #93850

Re: Laughing at them is unprofessional IMO

But Sherry did say that they wanted her to backdate. Maybe she laughed when they mentioned that. I somehow doubt that it was a "ha ha, your loan is screwed up" type of laughing.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 2/3/06 12:30pm
Msg #93854

Not at that time: they asked the day after.... n/m

Reply by srnotary_CA on 2/3/06 12:32pm
Msg #93858

Re: Not at that time: they asked the day after.... n/m

It is not easy to print docs sometimes. I had an issue yesterday and it took forever to print but I completed the signing like I said I would. I can see where Sherry is coming from.

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/3/06 12:49pm
Msg #93870

Re: Not at that time: they asked the day after.... n/m

Not necessarily. They could have said that it was fine to do it the next day as long as she backdated. Obviously we have no idea what took place in the conversation, but my point was that there are many types of laughter that aren't really laughing AT somebody. It could be nervous laughter or laughing at the ridiculousness of the whole situtation.

Reply by Delta_CA on 2/3/06 1:39pm
Msg #93886

MEOW!!!!!!!!!

Reply by Margaret_FL on 2/3/06 1:45pm
Msg #93888

Re: MEOW!!!!!!!!!

I get $150 for these CW packages, it is a lot of work. I have to go to Kinkos to make Certified copies for the Title and CW. The title company got me a FEDEX Kinkos card with the Title Co name and my name
on it so I don't have to front the copy fees, on average the copies have cost $30. CW want 2 certified copies of both loans and title company want 1 certified copy.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 2/3/06 12:31pm
Msg #93856

Bottom line...

She obviously knew they were printing "slow" before you left your office, frustration got to her and she dropped the ball...simple as that. Seems to me that far to many SA's fall out because they can't stand the heat and then it's back on the SS. I once contracted to meet a trucker at the truck stop and the docs weren't in my mail box until after 10 p.m.! I had him call his LO who in turn called me, gave me special passwords to get into his account, printed the docs and raced like heck to the borrower. We finished at 11:58 p.m. but we got it done. I could have easily laid it on Title but when I contract to do something I follow it through. Yep, I learn not to get into those messes BUT I still fulfill my end of the obligation. Far to many think they're above going that extra mile without huge payoffs. Tsk tsk, all of us are only as good as our word.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 2/3/06 12:35pm
Msg #93860

I agree and wouldn't dream of not following through

I myself would have completed the printing and notified them I was coming late and why.
But me, I am in this for the 100 K per year

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/3/06 12:45pm
Msg #93866

Re: Bottom line...

While I can't disagree with most of what you've said, the bottom line is that this SA was printing docs at 8:30 pm, which means it's very likely that they weren't sent over until late in the evening. Whether that was the original arragement or not I don't know, but we all know how often these companies send edocs many hours after they should have. This is the type of thing that can happen when these companies send out docs so late. They leave no wiggle room for the unexpected to happen.

I think it's great if you're willing to go that extra mile, but I certainly don't think we're obligated to do a signing at midnight becuase docs didn't show up until 10 pm. That's why it's so important to give a drop dead time with edocs. Let somebody else throw their life into upheaval to get it done.

Like I've said before, my attitiude is that a lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

Reply by Calnotary on 2/3/06 1:32pm
Msg #93880

Re: Bottom line...

She called you and left a message on your machine sherrie, its not her fault if youdont answer phones after
8PM IF title messed up on the scanning of docs its titles fault.

Reply by janCA on 2/3/06 1:35pm
Msg #93882

One other way.......

would have been to print one set for the signing and go back the next day and bring the borrower's set. And yes, I know, the borrower is suppose to get a set at closing but at least the docs would have been signed that day.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/3/06 2:34pm
Msg #93930

Great idea Jan....that would have resolved the problem...

I'll have to remember that should a situation arise again.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 2/3/06 3:13pm
Msg #93951

Re: Great idea Jan....that would have resolved the problem..

That would only work if you remember to have them make the extra RTC's to be signed at the time of the signing. And the ss will be paying another $40 for courier services and printing time. That set of docs more than likely isn't the only set that the sa has to do and will have to wait if others need to be printed for jobs that have been commited to and are running on time. Then again what good are the RTC's if the bo doesn't have copies of the docs to review during the whole recission period.

Reply by Dee_Fla on 2/3/06 5:03pm
Msg #94055

Re: Great idea Jan....that would have resolved the problem..

Why wouldnt they?its not like your holding them for days (unless you are talking about someone who is more then 15 miles away). I always get it to them first thing the next morning when those times arises. I don't hold on to them.

As far as the RTC's. Most of the time TC/Lenders send about 6 RTC tos ign...I give them one each (unless advised to give them 2 each). Some only have One RTC in them...but since they will have their copy (with me I put it on top) they know to sign it the date of signing and what to do if they hyperthetically decide to cancel).

If i only can bring one copy due to time or printing issues, I do let them review it if they need to before the signing.

D

Reply by Dee_Fla on 2/3/06 4:59pm
Msg #94052

Re: One other way.......

Exactly!!!! bingo!! which I do sometimes when time is the essence!!! d

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/3/06 5:03pm
Msg #94056

Re: One other way.......

What if the signing was 40 miles away? Are you really going to eat the cost of making a second trip out there the next day for something that might not have been your fault to begin with?

Reply by Dee_Fla on 2/3/06 5:10pm
Msg #94059

Re: One other way.......

If I have to Cali,I would,Yes. However, I may also talk to the SS/TC about it and compromise with them...especially if the TC sent it to me at the very last minute!!! There is such thing as compromising! At least the signing got done! D

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/3/06 5:16pm
Msg #94067

Re: One other way.......

I wouldn't. I'll gladly eat the cost of something that's my mistake, but there's no way I'll do it for free if it's not my fault. If it were 5 minutes away, sure, but 40 miles, no way.

Reply by JS_MD on 2/3/06 1:38pm
Msg #93884

Re: Bottom line...

Cali.... I completely agree with you. If title and the lender wait til after hours to send docs and they arent around to troubleshoot it aint my problem if the docs dont print properly. If this closing was all that critical this paperwork should have been squared away well BEFORE 8:30pm. These people need to get organized. Most clients do not appreciate closing their loan @ 10:00 pm, and many times we bear the brunt of thier frustration. I actually had loan officers tell people (on several occasions) that I've had the docs since morning and I'm just "too busy"to get there before 9:00 or 10:00 pm which is BS.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/3/06 2:35pm
Msg #93931

People at the TC were available to help her as was the

broker but she still chose not to do the closing

Reply by JS_MD on 2/3/06 11:01pm
Msg #94170

Re: People at the TC were available to help her as was the

Sherry...I apoligize....if help was available theres no excuse for this. Very unprofessional not to mention disrepectful to you and the borrower.

Reply by Dee_Fla on 2/3/06 4:55pm
Msg #94046

Re: We already got her side...

Was she drunk or on drugs?? or just plainly insane? sorry that was the first thought that came to me when i read this post! Justifiable in why you are feeling more fustrated! d

Reply by Anne/IL on 2/3/06 1:36pm
Msg #93883

That's very unfortunate but I know how frustrating it can be to try to print some docs at the last minute that are not coming through the right way. Last week I had a signing and ONE of the attachment was printing at the rate of 3 minutes per page, I was in constant contact with the lady at the title company who was sending me the docs and after trying a few things, I finally asked her to fax everything over and she did - I had the full package ready to go in 10 minutes and even though I was late to the signing, it did go through as planned.

Communication is the key and I agree maybe you should get an after-hours number for situation like this, I'm sure you could have found someone willing to take over the assignment maybe with a different type of printer. I work with 2 printers and sometimes it doesn't print on the first one but will on the other.

Unfortunately owning your business isn't always problem free, I'm finding this out myself....;-)

I hope you can have a good one on one with that SA and work things out with her. Good luck and enjoy your vacation!

Reply by NM_CO on 2/3/06 2:15pm
Msg #93919

Having run into this situation before; I can't and don't do anything other than accomodate my client. They hired me to keep track of notaries so it is my fault of things go wrong. It's the notaries fault for not having things up to par and/or printing right before he/she/they walk out the door unless docs were THhhhat late which I doubt since it was a late signing anyway. I just won't use that notary again. Simple.

Not a peronal attack Sherry, this is just what "I would do". Many many notaries screw things up, I find that complaining about it has done me no good. And I mean complaining to the notary. They are independent and should have it together.

I don't require fax backs or anything of the like, ever. Just a simple invoice when the closing is over (or that day). I don't have time to babysit and if a notary has to be babysat, I don't want them working for me anyway. This job is cake if you take the time to read your laws and know your docs. It's again, simple.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/3/06 2:38pm
Msg #93932

Not taken as a personal attack NM........

constructive criticism is always good..I just wish there was some legal resource...SA's want to charge cancellation fees..why cant we recoup our losses as well?

Reply by NM_CO on 2/3/06 3:02pm
Msg #93943

Re: Not taken as a personal attack NM........

Agreed but we own this business and they are independent contractors. It's hard to really "know" the notary and how they operate until they do a handful of closings for you. Sounds like to me this is someone new who is working for SLB? Just don't use her again. Bite the bullet and keep marketing and your spirits up!

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/3/06 3:03pm
Msg #93945

Thanks NM...have a great weekend!

Reply by NM_CO on 2/3/06 3:05pm
Msg #93947

Re: P.S. Sherry

Me being a closer as well, I NEVER would have not completed a closing. I am very driven and ambitious to make sure everything goes well. Out of god only knows how many loans I have closed, I've only had 1 not sign. I am determined to make sure I do the best for whoever hired me. But, just remember, not everyone has that mind set.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 2/3/06 3:07pm
Msg #93948

and thats what sets the career closers apart from the

fly by nights...I appreciate yor posts NM

Reply by Dee_Fla on 2/3/06 5:14pm
Msg #94063

Re: Not taken as a personal attack NM........

I want to make sure I read this right, not sure if you were talking in general or if you were saying she wants to charge you cancellation fee????? she wants to charge you for that when it was her who cancelled it??!!! Advise, Dee

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 2/3/06 2:27pm
Msg #93925

The notary is dead wrong for what she did! It is sad you will most likely have to eat the cost as you suggested. I would suspect this is a part of owning your own business however it is not right and I think most notaries on this board with agree. I would guess all you can do is place the notary on your no no list and of course never call her again. I would think as a commissioned notary the notary would know better then to be so unprofessional. That is really a shame, sorry that happened to you. Perhaps you can persue legal action as well, for your loss.

Reply by NM_CO on 2/3/06 2:33pm
Msg #93929

I totally agree Susan, it was wrong for the notary to do that but in the end and the bottom line is that Sherry is the one who is ultimately responsible.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 2/3/06 2:44pm
Msg #93933

Hey doing your recipe this weekend! Thanks

Reply by Shane_OH on 2/3/06 4:25pm
Msg #94006

Answer before reading other replies...

i'm sure this has been addressed... but.

First I'd contact whoever sent over the docs to make sure the Notary had ample time to print the docs before leaving for the appointment.

If she got them with time I'd contact the notary to ask
1) Why she completely cancelled the appointment that close to the signing time.
2) If LO/Client/You would have been okay with her running late to the appointment?
3) Why she was running late if she had enough time to print docs, did appointments overlap?
4) Does she have a system issue that you need to be aware of for future appointments?

As for your eating the costs.... I hate to say Yes, but I think thats the road it takes. Just as a notary might eat time or business lost due to a TC not getting docs in a timely manner, or scheduling a closing for 4pm, and then calling at 3:30 to push it back a day...

Nature of our beast?

Reply by Shane_OH on 2/3/06 4:31pm
Msg #94021

This is where I network....

See, if I'm having that kind of problem, or if something happens 1 appointment runs real late, and would make me late for another....I have #'s of other quality signing agents in the area, that I call to send some business over.

Just because we work in the same area, doesn't make us competitors, sometimes it does, but having people you can throw business to, in my eyes, makes you that much more attractive to SS's,TC's, and Lenders.