Posted by kkdmiddleton on 1/23/06 8:12am
Msg #90220

Any real estate ppl out there I have a landlord question

My husband and I are moving to WV. The landlord came over this weekend with the lease and everything was fine, until we finished signing everything. She gave this paper with the utility companies on it. She had the phone names and phone numbers so we didn't look at it twice. Before everything was said and done, she said she wants us to fill out that paper and give her our account numbers so she can check up on our accounts and make sure we're paying our bills. I told her I didn't feel comfortable doing this and she has no business checking our accounts. She tried to explain that she has been stuck with someone's bill before and the utility company said it was her responiblity to pay it. My husband and I both told her that is not true unless it is in her name. That it falls on who's ever Social # it is under.

The lease was already signed at this point, so it didn't break the deal.

My question is, is this legal? Can a landlord really ask for this kind of information?

Reply by PAW_Fl on 1/23/06 8:20am
Msg #90225

>>> Can a landlord really ask for this kind of information? <<<

Depends on the contract and how utilities are billed. There are some utilities, like water, for example, that are billed per "connection" rather than per "unit" where all the tenants share in the cost, even if there is a separate metering system in place. In these cases, the landlord is often responsible for payment and should include the fee in the rent. As for electricity, phone, cable TV, etc., these are usually billed per "unit" and the billing and service is set up by the tenant. In those cases, the landlord probably won't be responsible for the bill per se, but as landlord, may still be responsible in some fashion to the utility company.

Reply by kkdmiddleton on 1/23/06 8:29am
Msg #90227

All utilities are to be in our name. The application it self was 6 pages long, the lease is 6 pages long with 7 addendums. She has checked into everything under the sun. My husband and I both work full time jobs that put together put us four times over the rent and she still wanted all of my notary stubs from the previous month. She came to the home we are in now and did a house check. Then after we sign everything she lays this on us. She didn't bring it up while we were filling out the application and we were there for 2 hours. Plus, she deposit our deposit before she told us she accepted our application. I think this might end up being a nightmare waiting to happen. The rent on this place was just too good to pass up though for a four bedroom 3.5 bath. They only want 1275.00 a month. Can't beat it. Just hope we don't regret it later.

Reply by Notary_NJ on 1/23/06 8:46am
Msg #90231

Be careful. She sounds very aggressive. Just know your rights by obtaining the Tenant/Landord info. as I mentioned in the prior email.

In the future, do not give a deposit to anyone before you know they have approved you. This can be a headache. Before I knew a lot of this, I had a landlord from hell. That's why I went into real estate and paralegal work. I really learned a lot from that experience and I try to help anyone I can.

Reply by BP/WV on 1/23/06 11:39am
Msg #90281

All she needs to do is a credit check..

Reply by Anonymous on 1/23/06 9:30am
Msg #90239

Re: $1275/mo in West Virginia?!!

Where in West Virginia commands rent like that?

Reply by Mung/CA on 1/23/06 12:47pm
Msg #90311

How about $1250/mo for 1 bedroom apt. 6 yrs ago!

Reply by Anonymous on 1/23/06 12:48pm
Msg #90312

Re: In West Virginia, Mung?!

Reply by kkdmiddleton on 1/23/06 1:43pm
Msg #90339

Re: $1275/mo in West Virginia?!!

I actually got lucky and found it in Charles Town. That is the whole reason we wanted the place.

Reply by Notary_NJ on 1/23/06 8:36am
Msg #90229

I have been a realtor and a R.E. Paralegal. I feel your concern. In truth, the landlord has NO right to contact any utility company to find out the status of your bill, unless you give him/her the right to do so. If the landlord wants to find out the status of utility bill than he/she should put the bill in thier name and/or pay it themselves. However, if the bill is in you and your husband's name than the landlord CANNOT make this type of demand, unless your state law allows it.

My suggestion is to contact your Tenant/Landlord court or the County Clerk's office to obtain a Tenant/Landord handbook or Rule book. The law normally does not make any provisions for a landlord to obtain or demand this type of information because of their fears. Be sure to check this out. It could be illegal. If it is, then there definitely could be a provision for you to get out of the lease (check with a Tenant/Landlord attorney). Rememeber, all landlords must follow the law and all tenants have rights. Being a tenant does not give the landlord a right to invade your privacy.

If the landlord is that afraid then he/she should not be a landlord.

Reply by kkdmiddleton on 1/23/06 9:03am
Msg #90232

Thanks PAW and NotaryNJ. I didn't think she had that right. She even asked for our bank account numbers. But I already knew that we didn't have to give that to her. Besides, I knew the bank wouldn't give out any information anyway.

Reply by janCA on 1/23/06 11:07am
Msg #90271

State and Consumer Services Agency

You should be able to obtain much of the information you need online for your state from the State and Consumer Services Agency. I just had to do this recently to find out what my rights as a landlord is in the State of California and there is a wealth of information on this website.

Reply by wendy_wa on 1/23/06 11:21am
Msg #90276

Re: State and Consumer Services Agency

You really have to check the landlord/tenant laws for the state. In CA for example, the Landlord is responsible for any unpaid utility bills even if they are in the Tenants name. My husband and I own several rentals in many states. We had a tenant leave an $800.00 gas bill in Sacramento and after failing to collect from the tenant, the utility company billed us as the property owner. Which is the law in CA. Any creditor, who has the authorization to pull your credit, generally has the authorization to verify employment and credit worthiness as well, even bank acct balances. You probably signed a very vague disclosure, as is on most rental applications. They can simply verify that you have had or not had any disconnect notices for example and it is legal for the utility co.s to disclose that. Same as if you called the utility co to find the previous average use of the former occupant. To me it sounds more like your landlord is very thorough and professional.

Reply by Brad_CA on 1/23/06 11:20am
Msg #90275

I am a Landlord here in the State of California. I pay for my tenants water, and the cost is incorporated into the monthly rent. As for the other utilities, that is the responsibility of the tenant. However, I require them to maintain gas and electrical utilities at all times. If they default, the utility company notifies me. I am in no way responsible if they default on their payments. It goes on their credit, under their social security number.

The Landlord does not have a right to have this information. I do have my tenants Social Security numbers, because I run credit checks on all prospective tenants. As far as the security deposit, you should only give this to the Landlord after you are accepted as a new tenant, not before. This person sounds like a control freak, as a lot of landlords are. Be careful. She may around all the time checking on you. There are specific laws on the books in California that prevent landlords from doing this. You state probably does as well. You as a tenant have the right to privacy. Hope this helps.

Reply by wendy_wa on 1/23/06 11:24am
Msg #90278

Brad, you are wrong. If the tenant does not pay and the utility co cannot collect from the tenant they will pursue you and even lien your property. This is standard, especially for PG&E for example. It is CA Law and very easy to find online. I tell you this only so you can protect yourself.

Reply by Brad_CA on 1/23/06 11:41am
Msg #90282

Wendy, I have had a tenant default and not pay their bill when they moved out. Southern California Edison (SCE) notified me, then they pursued them for the outstanding amount.
I had this discussion with SCE on more than one occassion. That is why I made the statement that I did.

However, I would like to read the information that you read. If you post it, I would like to review it. Thanks.

Reply by Paul_IL on 1/23/06 1:23pm
Msg #90330

Wendy,
You are only partially correct. CA law allows landlord to be held responsible only for water bills. Does not apply to other utilities such as gas and electric. Old tenant water bills can be added to the property taxes if not paid.

Reply by wendy_wa on 1/24/06 1:51am
Msg #90521

Unless the laws have only recently changed (I completed my last required continuing education in 2003 and haven't received any updates on the topic) - per my previous post - I have personally had my property liened by PG&E for an $800 GAS bill in my tenants name. Not only did PG&E fail to disconnect after months on non-payment ($800 is a huge gas - CA law is very pro-tenant) but PG&E only attempted to collect from the tenant for a period of 6 months before I received notice of intent to lien. I contacted several attornies and disputed all responsibility (providing evidence of the lease where tenant agrees to be responsible, proving I resided in WA the entire term in question, etc.) before having to pay to have the lien removed so I could sell the property.

Reply by MelissaCT on 1/23/06 12:04pm
Msg #90288

Just make sure to pay by money order -- otherwise, your checking account number is on the bottom of your checks.

I'm a landlord & have never asked for information like that. Unless it's an oil bill or water/sewer (where a lien could be placed on the property for non-payment) she should not be concerned with your account information like that, and should not be authorized to access your account information.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 1/23/06 12:09pm
Msg #90290

I personally would tell this lady that she is out of her ever loving mind. Even if the leased property come with all utilities paid, she has no right to this information. I would be looking for a new property management service and a new place to live.

Reply by NJ_Notary on 1/23/06 12:43pm
Msg #90306

NJ RE BROKER/PROPERTY MANAGER

As a licensed NJ Real Estate Broker and property manger of over 1,000 units ( and sorry not to brag on that either-just trying to show I have experience is all). It is not uncommon for a landlord to ask for such information. I do find that it is uncommon to ask for the information after you have signed the lease. In my practice as part of the application I require that this information be given to us so that we can check it as a reference, etc. In my colleagues' and my experience throughout the state of NJ (we manage properties from Allendale to the southern charm of Cape May) a little indicator of a person's chance on defaulting on the rental payment is thru their utlity bills (ie. phone, electric, cell phone, et.al.).

Im not sure what state you are in but the arrears of the utlity bills runs with the person, not with the property. In other words the utlity bill is not stuck to the property, but rather the person who opened the account. This holds true in the state of NJ, but may not in other states.

I would contact a local property manager and/or your personal attorney and ask him with regard to the state you are/will be residing in.

Thats just my opinion. Good luck!

Reply by Mung/CA on 1/23/06 12:50pm
Msg #90314

check this out

http://www.megalaw.com/ca/top/calandlord.php

Reply by Mung/CA on 1/23/06 12:51pm
Msg #90315

Sorry. I thought you were in Ca. n/m

Reply by kkdmiddleton on 1/23/06 1:46pm
Msg #90344

Thanks for all your help.

I've rented alot of places over the years and have never had a landlord ask for account numbers so they could "check up on me". I tried to explain to her that if we default on our electric and cable, that if falls on us not the property, but she said I was wrong. I may be young, but I'm not stupid. Anyway, just thought I would find out more from you guys. Thanks.