Posted by Anonymous on 1/27/06 10:20am
Msg #91725

Fees reduced for borrower not signing

I find it difficult to understand why a notary would work with a company who reduces fees if you make the trip and the borrower does not sign or the loan does not fund. A new company called me to do a job today and sent me their agreement to review and sign. My fee would be reduced if either of the above happened. I refuse the job with these conditions. I always ask a new company to advise me by email of their policy in these situations. If I do everything I agree to do I expect to be paid. I cannot control what the borrower does.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 1/27/06 10:26am
Msg #91729

From my perspective, this kind of situation is on a case by case basis...For example, if you print docs, go to a closing, and when you arrive the borrower sees the interest rate and refuses to sign...you were at the closing for 5 minutes and did no notarizations. We pay a $50 trip/print fee. I cannot justify a full fee for that kind of situation. NOW if you spent an hour with the borrower trying to iron things out that is a different story. We will pay fill fee for that.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 1/27/06 10:35am
Msg #91733

Sherry, a question please....

I'm curious...as an SA we set our fees and make our agreements with the SS companies. Do you as a SS company have signed agreements with the TC's? IF so, is it spelled out what the payment agreement is IF it's a no sign or a cancel? It would seem to me that is the place we need to start and perhaps if that happened LO's and TC's would take a more active interest in the loan explaination itself. I quickly scan the fine print between you and I but perhaps the SS should take the bull by the horns since you're the middle man. Furthermore to the SA's that work directly for TC's...are you paid regardless of funding? What is common?

Reply by Anonymous on 1/27/06 10:47am
Msg #91739

Re: Sherry, a question please....

I work directly for many tc's. I always get a full fee whether the loan funds or not and no matter if I am with a bo for 2 hours or 5 minutes. It all comes out in the wash and they know that.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 1/27/06 10:48am
Msg #91740

In reply to Sue

I dont have an agreement that my clients sign but I do have a policies and procedures manual that addresses this situation. I jsut need to be able to justify charging my client a full fee for a loan that didnt close. As long as I can do that, you will get full fee.

This manual addresses the fact that should a loan rescind, full fee will still be expected. A lot of companies dont like this because they feel that we should eat it. My stance on this is that if you and I both did our jobs correctly (scheduled and closed the loan without error) why should we not get paid. It is not our fault that the borrower decided to rescind. On the same note, I make my clients fully aware that I expect the SA's that I work with to be held accountable when there is an error on their part (i.e. return to correct error at no charge, etc)

Reply by Cris_AR on 1/27/06 10:54am
Msg #91744

I do not agree. (I HAVE taken trip fees only , just do not like it)
Time is money and if I have given up a time slot I expect to be paid.
While I understand your perspective I lose money and time in these situtations when the borrowers have not been notified beforehand of all costs or stipulations.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 1/27/06 11:00am
Msg #91746

I understand your frustration and I agree with you (to an extent) but I do not think that it is realistic. There are some TC's who would understand and accept cahrging full fee but there are a lot more that wouldn't and dont.

Isnt your whole fee including notarizations and time? Why should you be paid full fee if you havent notarized a document or spent any time? I understand the time slot thing but there are some valid points on the other side of the coin as well.

Reply by Cris_AR on 1/27/06 11:10am
Msg #91751

"Isnt your whole fee including notarizations and time? Why should you be paid full fee if you havent notarized a document or spent any time? I understand the time slot thing but there are some valid points on the other side of the coin as well."

Sure but time is time regardless of how it was spent , if someone orders and hour on a particular day I am out that hour regardless of sign or no sign.

Example yesterday. I have a double it cancels, they call me back will I back date? no, ok well it is on again. Borrower needs to be out of her house by five, three no docs I call, well I think it will be recheduled, no call back to me in the meantime I have had THREE calls for that particular time slot, I am out the money period. Can I charge on this one? No, but I am basically out the $$$$.

Had a no sign yesterday, TC paid full fee no questions.


I have a couple of companies that this occassionally happens with, no problem, they send me tons of work, I will take the trip fee even if I do not like it. For those who cancel constantly or send me to no signs constantly (maybe call 2 or 3 times a month), I want my full fee , does not mean I get it.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 1/27/06 11:11am
Msg #91753

But then there's also the issue that if our fee is on the contingency of the bo signing and not recinding it can put the sa in the possition of feeling pressured to sell the loan. And as you know that is something that we cannot do. Nor do we want to give off the appearance of doing so.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 1/27/06 11:18am
Msg #91759

What is the difference between...

We have several Doctors in our town that now charge a cancellation fee IF you do not cancel within 24 hours...they justify this because the slot is taken and they can't reschedule in less than 24 hours. Take it to the bank they add a fee to your bill, last time it happened to me it was a stiff $75 and because it's their "policy" either pay or go to court. A few of the lawyers have taken up the same policy. Now they're billing strictly for time, not service based on their hourly "lost income". Hmmmm....before you say a word about the obvious difference in professions...regardless of what you do for a living your time is just as valuable.

Reply by CarolynCO on 1/27/06 11:21am
Msg #91761

*haven't notarized a document or spent any time?*

Sherry,
But we are spending time. There is a post on GMN that breaks down the time involved in a signing -- time spent on phone with SS/TC/BO, printing docs, pre-signing reviewing docs time, driving time, signing time, post-signing reviewing time, faxing and more phone calls, shipping ...

Now granted, if the BO cancels within the first 5 minutes, I can probably take an hour or so off the time. However, I are still looking at 2-3 hours that I have in this loan package even if it doesn't close.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 1/27/06 11:23am
Msg #91763

Carolyn - pls read entire thread - I dont disagree

but I do not think this industry (as a whole) would handle additional fees. Heck, i dont make a cent off of cancellations (even though we took the time to shcedule the loan - which sometimes takes longer than one might think). I pay the closers a trip fee but I get ), zilch, nada. I dont agree with it BUT I gotta do what I gotta do.

Reply by CarolynCO on 1/27/06 11:26am
Msg #91765

Re: Carolyn - pls read entire thread - I dont disagree

I was posting as I read the each post in the thread -- I have not read the entire thread so I will now read all posts in their entirety before commenting again.

Reply by CarolynCO on 1/27/06 11:53am
Msg #91775

Re: OK, Sherry, I've read the entire thread

I can understand where you are coming from as the "middleman" -- however, I still believe that my time is worth more than $0, $25, $35 or $50 for a no-sign.

Fortuntely, I've only had one couple that refused to sign at the table, and this decision was made within the first 5 minutes. LO was a fast talking sleeze. BOs put him on the speaker phone and the line of crap this guy was handing out needed scoop shovels to get it out of the house. This signing was directly through a mortgage company whom I had never signed for them before and won't again. I didn't pursue any sort of payment because it was obvious that this company had no morals or ethics and I didn't want their dirty money. It was also an overnight package so I was not out printing time or paper -- just my travel time.

On the other hand, doing a 360 degree circle, I had a brand new TC contact me, and overnight the docs. Docs were not date-sensitive. BOs father was listed on the loan and he was out-of-town. With several phone calls to BO trying to get everyone's schedule on the same date and e-mails to TC, I probably had 30-45 minutes involved. Finally, got an appointment to meet everyone's schedule and then five hours before appointment, BO calls saying he was canceling the loan. I didn't leave the driveway, I didn't print docs, and I only had local phone calls and e-mails, so I simply shipped the docs back without an invoice. Three days later I receive a check for FULL signing payment for my *time and trouble*. Therefore, if a company can pay full rates in this case, you can bet your bottom dollar if I have hours involved, i.e., phone calls, printing, travel, etc., etc., that I'm going to bill, expect and deserve 100% full payment.

We all have business procedures and practices -- that's the beauty of being self-employed.

Reply by CarolynCO on 1/27/06 11:24am
Msg #91764

Re: duh - I *AM* not I *are*

I originally included this as a group *we* and decided to change it to a singular *I*

Reply by Anonymous on 1/27/06 10:29am
Msg #91730

I have to agree with you on that one. I did a signing for The Document Guardian like an idiot I didn't think I had to ask or tell them the fee for a no sign. Low and behold I get to the signing after waiting for the client for 20 min., paying a sitter for my 4 boys the client decides hes not signing because the terms are not as agreed. Called SS and LO wait another 15-20 min then told that the docs have to be redrawn. Called SS and she tells me "and by the way I only pay $30 for a no sign". Well its been past 30 days and 2 emails and a phone call later my check is finally in the mail. We'll see, Talk about a loss at least I didn't have to print the docs.

Reply by JS_MD on 1/27/06 10:46am
Msg #91737

I have had 4 cancel at the table this month due to the loan offficers misleading people about interest rates or prepayment penalties. Perhaps the loan officer should have to pay us out of his pocket.... I bet that would stop alot of this BS.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 1/27/06 10:52am
Msg #91742

I agree but lets get realistic....

These LO are not going to pay out of pocket for situations like this. There should be some minimal standards in this industry but there just arent. I have to explain this alot, although none of us like it, cancellations are just par for the course in this industry. It is almost as frustrating for us too...

A lot of my clients will not blink twice at paying fees for cancellations or rescissions than I have those that baulk over every little penny...

Reply by Charles_Ca on 1/27/06 11:03am
Msg #91747

Re: I agree but lets get realistic....Yes, lets!

Mobile Loan signing is an accommodation for the client. For years that client trudged on down to the escrow company to get the docs signed and the loan closed. Today having a mobile notary is a major convenience and it needs to be paid for. The borrower should pay for the convenience of having the docs transmitted to the notary, for the notary to travel to the borrower, for the notary to have to go through the signing and in many cases put up with the borrowers crap (power trips, unsanitary lifestyles, smoking etc) travel home and post the documents. And this all has to be done efficiently with tact and diplomacy and without error. Try not to pay the pizza delivery charge. It's for the convenience of the borrower. It is not necessary to have mobile notaries, its just an accommodation!

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 1/27/06 11:09am
Msg #91750

No arguement Charles...I just dont think this industry gets

that. I wish they did but at this point in time, I do not feel that it is realistic. If I felt that I could get away with it, I would charge for those sorts of things but I think I would lose a ton of clients if I attempted to institute full charge fees...and again, I want to make this clear that I do agree with most of what is being said. Heck when you see what the other half makes, I cannot believe that TC's and brokers baulk at $150.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 1/27/06 11:17am
Msg #91756

Re: No arguement Charles...I just dont think this industry g

That's because of the undercutting one ss does to get the other ss's clients. The tc knows they eventually will find a company that will do it cheaper. The same goes for sa's the lowballers will be found and do the jobs for a short time because you can't stay in business taking such small fees.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 1/27/06 11:18am
Msg #91760

See we are all in the same situation - Good point Sarah n/m

Reply by Charles_Ca on 1/27/06 11:17am
Msg #91757

You are absolutely right Sherry. It's just that some

forget the order of things. Documents must be notarized to record, that's a fact. How the notarization occurs is where the differences are and some people tend to forget that Mobile Notaries are a service. There are ways to increase demand and therefore price of the service. Unfortunately there are external forces beyond our control (at least mine and I suspect yours) that are causing this service to become a commodity. Things will change since we are at a major crossroads in this business as it starts to mature.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 1/27/06 11:45am
Msg #91774

BTW Charles - how is my doggie doing today?LOL n/m

Reply by Charles_Ca on 1/27/06 12:03pm
Msg #91783

Pant pant, bark bark, wag, but I have a complaint ,you

don't scratch me behind the ears nearly as much as I'd like!

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 1/27/06 12:05pm
Msg #91784

CA is a long way for my arms to reach...so here ya go

SCRATCH SCRATCH PAT SCRATCH SCRATCH (insert milkbone in mouth) SCRATCH.....hope that helps..Have a great day!

Reply by Charles_Ca on 1/27/06 12:19pm
Msg #91794

I love this group. It is so much fun ;-) NM

Reply by Cris_AR on 1/27/06 11:15am
Msg #91754

Re: I agree but lets get realistic....Yes, lets!

"Mobile Loan signing is an accommodation for the client. For years that client trudged on down to the escrow company to get the docs signed and the loan closed. Today having a mobile notary is a major convenience and it needs to be paid for. The borrower should pay for the convenience of having the docs transmitted to the notary, for the notary to travel to the borrower, for the notary to have to go through the signing and in many cases put up with the borrowers crap (power trips, unsanitary lifestyles, smoking etc) travel home and post the documents. And this all has to be done efficiently with tact and diplomacy and without error. Try not to pay the pizza delivery charge. It's for the convenience of the borrower. It is not necessary to have mobile notaries, its just an accommodation! "


AND I have to put on makeup and where my good clothes for NOTHING! lol

Reply by Cris_AR on 1/27/06 11:16am
Msg #91755

"wear" not where nm

Reply by JDB and Associates Wade on 1/28/06 5:36pm
Msg #92117

Re: "wear" not where nm

I work strictly with companies that have the understanding that I get paid, no matter what. A few I signed the contract with them (w-a-a-a-y back when).

Made a trip recently to Holiday Island. Borrower was the rudest witch on the planet. It was a triple witness closing and she wanted me to go to another location because the witnesses were unable to come to her house. She did not mention this little tidbit during the confirmation call I made to her the previous day.

Mine you, Holiday Island is approx. 52 miles one way from my office. Nice drive and all, but she was highly offended when I told her that my confirmation documents specifically said that the loan closing was to take place at her address.

Yes, had she not been rude, I probably would have accommodated her. Needless to say, the loan did not close. I returned the loan package to the lender and got paid full fee.

Reply by JDB and Associates Wade on 1/28/06 5:38pm
Msg #92118

Re: "wear" not where nm

BTW, when I called the lender to let them know of this incident, they were upset, but not at me; she had been rude to everyone.