Posted by TitleGalCA on 1/15/06 9:37pm
Msg #88591

Just wondering - for CA notaries

I'm a borrower - my husband has ID in his name. But there is some concern about mine - when I got married, I adopted my maiden name as my middle name; and I have current and acceptable ID in my maiden name and ID in my married name. For a twist, I lived with my new husband for 2 years and we have the same address and same address is reflected in ID's. Everything looks like a match - photo's, address' and names - except that now I'm a married lady.

To recap; I'm Susan Smith, single, with an address that matches my live-in boyfriend. I marry my live-in boyfriend, now he is my husband, John Doe. We still live at the same address. I decide, after marriage, that I'm Susan Smith Doe. I have acceptable ID (with photos and same address) in both names; Susan Smith and Susan Doe, but not Susan Smith Doe. My loan docs state Susan Smith Doe.

Would you notarize me as Susan Smith Doe?

Reply by Anonymous on 1/15/06 9:55pm
Msg #88592

I won't post this answer with my real name. This is what I call the conflict between what is actually legal in Calif and what happens in real life notary work.

I would notarize this document but I understand it is not legal to do so in Calif because it doesn't meet our I.D. requirements.

Another area that is not legal but most Ca notaries will notarize a document with this scenerio:
Person has the yellow temporary license, that says on it "can't be used for I.D. purposes" and person also has their pictured Ca expired license with the same I.D. number as the yellow temporary.
Probably 90% of Calif notaries would accept this I.D. and the other 10% would have forgotten to ask for any I.D.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 1/15/06 10:03pm
Msg #88593

Re: Just wondering - thanks for your thoughts, Anon

***I would notarize this document but I understand it is not legal to do so in Calif because it doesn't meet our I.D. requirements***

You are SO right, the conflict with reality and the legal req's. Still, I hold that for some mature notaries (mature as in time as a notary) the difficult identification issues are always left up to the notary, and calls to the SOS will render more than one opinion.

***This is what I call the conflict between what is actually legal in Calif and what happens in real life notary work***

Thanks much for your honesty.

Reply by Anonymous on 1/16/06 6:40pm
Msg #88703

Re: Just wondering - thanks for your thoughts, Anon

How to Spot a Fake ID


By Nevin Barich
[e-mail address]
NSA Now: Issue #53 — January 2006


While technology has modernized the business and practice of operating as a Notary Signing Agent, it has also ushered in more sophisticated ways to create fake IDs.
Though there is no foolproof method to spot every phony ID, a fake can often be discovered through attention to detail and an awareness of various telltale signs. Here are a few:

Signatures on the ID different than on the document. Signatures should be consistent between the document being notarized, the ID and the journal.


Inconsistencies in color or texture. Smudges or erasures may indicate tampering.


Misspelled words and inappropriate typewriting. Government agencies rarely issue ID with misspellings on the printed portion of the card.


Raised edges around a photograph. This could result from placement of a second picture over the original. Official seals and signatures may be partially covered by a fraudulent photo.


Card wear inconsistent with the date of issuance. A driver’s license issued four years ago, for example, normally would show wear and tear associated with four years of use. If a license’s issuance date is several years old but the ID appears brand new, something may be amiss.

Bear in mind that when a signer appears before you and you suspect the ID being presented is a phony, use common sense to ensure your safety. If you feel comfortable refusing the notarization, then do so, but do not risk harm attempting to detain a person you suspect is committing fraud.

Reply by Jenny_CA on 1/15/06 11:15pm
Msg #88595

Title Gal, is your question excluding the use of CWs that know her as Susan Smith Doe?

Reply by TitleGalCA on 1/15/06 11:21pm
Msg #88596

Yes - and NO credible witness'

This isn't a SS test question, I promise you =)

Reply by Jenny_CA on 1/15/06 11:48pm
Msg #88599

Re: Yes - and NO credible witness'

If I have the two IDs that match everything the same except for Smith and Doe together and I don't suspect fraud I will notarize her signature as S.S.D. for I will consider them reliable evidence. I will jot them both in my journal . I am open to the heat. I'd rather have it on the board than in a court room.

Perhaps I am biased with my own situation. I have turned away signers with "swapmeet" ID cards.

Reply by Anonymous on 1/16/06 10:56pm
Msg #88727

Jenny/CA, what does S.S. D mean?

Reply by Jenny_CA on 1/16/06 11:08pm
Msg #88729

Re: Susan Smith Doe n/m

Reply by Jenny_CA on 1/15/06 11:34pm
Msg #88597

Re: BTW

My DL says J.B. J. is spelled in spanish but signed in English. DMV said that it was fine to sign that way.

Our loan docs have me as J..M. I have cards with J.B.M. ( Costco's, gym card, and credit card all with pictures) but nothing with J.M.

The notary notarized the docs with out witnesses and at first didn't really pay attention and started to simply jot down the DL info. The reason she even asKed to see additional ID was because I told the LO officer that I specifically wanted the docs to say J.B.M. that is how we started all the paperwork and even the original loan had me under J.B.M.

I normally use J.B. and J.B.M but never J.M. I guess I am someone's nightmare.

Reply by Rick_NY on 1/16/06 9:09am
Msg #88623

Re: Just wondering - a NY point of view

Yes.

I'd ask to see the marriage certificate/license. It's something that ties together the person who is Susan Smith with the person who is Susan Doe. Usually people have a copy of it handy, too, which I send along to the t/c.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 1/16/06 9:44am
Msg #88635

Re: Just wondering - a NY point of view

But Rick if you were a CA notary and you could not use the marriage license then what would you do?

Reply by Rick_NY on 1/16/06 5:46pm
Msg #88701

To Sarabeth [Re: Just wondering - a NY point of view

> But Rick if you were a CA notary and you could not use the marriage license then what
> would you do?

Sarabeth: Labeled as such, I was providng information regarding how such discrepancies have been successfully handled in NY, in the hopes it might spark something useful for Titlegal.

You're saying that doesn't help in CA. Duly noted.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 1/16/06 9:42am
Msg #88634

No I would not notarize without using CW's in this instance. CA law states "reasonable reliance upon one of the following", not a combination of ID's. When someone has 2 ID's with different last names that don't match what is on the docs using them would be relying on 2 ID's that don't meet "the signature on doc may have less than the ID but not more" rule.

I think it is interesting that we can have whatever we want put on our DL's. For instance my mothers first name is Darlene. After she divorced her husband she went to the DMV and had them change her first name on her DL to Dee. The reason she did this was she hated the way her ex-husband would yell her first name at her. Let's just say he was a complete a/hole and screamed bloody murder at her for at least an hour or more a day without any reason other than to be an a/hole. She was thinking of going and having it legally changed but never did. So now her DL has a name on it that isn't hers. She's since moved out of state and nobody calls her Darlene. In fact I doubt that 98% of the people even know her name really is Darlene. I never even asked her about her loan docs. But she lives in LA not CA so whatever they did isn't applicable here. If her docs said Darlene on them because that is her name legally I doubt any credible witnesses would know her given name and thier vouching at the table would be "yup she is who she says she is", not oh yeah I never knew her real name before right now. I don't know what type of oath wording is used in LA but I'm sure that they would take the oath no matter what it said in it.

Now in CA the law says the CW must swear that it is (I can't think of the exact wording but Cali's posted it several times before) extremely difficult if not impossible to obtain the proper ID. Well not in CA, it just takes a little time. The moral of the story is put your legal name on your DL, first, middle and last; and use it or a shortened version in your business dealings. If you want to be called something else then just say "My name is Darlene, I prefer to be called Dee". This is something I've always believed from before I got my first DL. That is my name.

Here's the twist. I was born with Smith for a last name, my mother married a man with the last name Doe. He never adopted us but we went to school he just had my mom write his last name for us kids for our school records, and he had our military ID's in our birth names. Incidentally I went to school at the Air Force Base for the first two years I attended school (with his last name). I'm just glad I got my DL 2 weeks after I got married and my name hasn't changed in any way since.

Reply by John_NorCal on 1/16/06 10:26am
Msg #88641

Re: Just wondering - for CA notaries another side to this..

I am a borrower with ID in my first name, John. Loan docs have Juan because that is how I want to be called from now on. Can you notarize John as Juan when you know that is the correct translation?

Reply by Giselle_CA on 1/16/06 12:24pm
Msg #88659

Interesting question. According to 1185: "Satisfactory evidence means the absence of any information, evidence, or other circumstances which would lead a reasonable person to believe that the person making the acknowledgment is not the individual he or she claims to be..." She has id with the name of Susan Smith and another id with Susan Doe. To me, there is no satisfactory evidence that she is Susan Smith Doe.

One of the requirements to use CW is: "The person making the acknowledgment does not possess any of the identification documents named in paragraph (3) and (4)." In this case, she has two ids.

Marriage certificates are not one of the documents we can rely on for identification purposes in CA and no, I wouldn't notarize John as Juan.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 1/16/06 3:00pm
Msg #88686

I just had a situation like this on Friday. Signer Susan Doe is married but states she legally goes by Susan Doe, Susan Smith, or Susan Doe-Smith. Her picture ID reads Susan Doe, all documents are printed with Susan Doe-Smith. She has no credible witness that are available at the time of the signing. The only documents with Susan Doe-Smith are utility bills, marriage license, etc. I can only legally identify her as Susan Doe. Lender authorized that Susan Doe-Smith be changed to Susan Doe, and the changes initialed by borrower, which is what we ended up doing. If anyone has an opinion good or bad I would like to hear it. TIA

Reply by eXpedN_TX on 1/16/06 3:28pm
Msg #88689

Had to do the same thing...only I was called to redo the signing with the names corrected. Not my fault, so they paid me a second time. I also noticed there were a lot more docs added the second time around then there were the first time. I think I may have ended up doing the signing again because of missing docs, not because the borrower had to make so many corrections. I think you did the right thing.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 1/17/06 3:11pm
Msg #88871

Re: eXpedN

If they end up doing a redraw, then they will just have to pay me for a second trip. Like your situation this was not my fault either. Thanks for your reply eXpedN.