Posted by SarahBeth_CA on 1/17/06 6:46pm
Msg #88942

OT-Science Fair, A Project for the student or the parent?

Oh how I detest the science fair. I like science ok, in fact I wanted to be a marine biologist until I learned that I couldn't stand sea water. Here's the issue. The science fair project is not a project for the student it is a project for the parent. Keep in mind that we are talking about elementary school here. Last year my daughter in 6th grade had to do it, and I was so glad that it was over and was hoping that we wouldn't have to go through the hell again this year. This year my son in 5th has to.

First of all they don't give the student enough time for the project. My son found out on Jan 6th that he had to do a project. It's due on Feb. 1. If you are going to do anything that involves the growing of plants or bacteria you need more than 3 weeks to plan, get supplies, do the project, and make the display board and journal. Here's where it gets even more fun for me. The day he brought home the science fair packet (oh yes it comes with a manual about 15 pages long explaining the scientific method and all the different parts of the project) was the day we began the week of painting, steam cleaning, and preparing our house to go on the market. Now keep in mind I asked the teacher in November if they were doing it and she said it was undecided at the time. I told her to let me know as soon as she knew. So now we are screwed because we only have 2 weeks to do the project.

Secondly a part of the project is the report, data, charts, graphs, and journal. The report which is 2 to 3 pages long has to include complete bibliography of references. In the 5th grade these kids haven't even scratched the surface of a writing project of this magnitude. Why don't they teach them how to do that first considering that writing not science is something that they must reach proficiency in before going to the next grade level. Now I must also mention that niether of my kids have brought home a graph, chart, or scientific data that they have made on anything before. This part is something that they clearly aren't ready for. Oh and the putting together of the display board making sure that it is neat and eyecatching. Wouldn't you know I ran out of color printer ink just before the first of the year.

Considering the last paragraph this is where the project becomes one for the parent. This becomes nothing but a source of stress, nagging, pushing, and crying; all in trying to meet a deadline that is rediculously short in the first place. If the child goes off task for just a few minutes and the parent isn't over thier shoulder to keep them on then your even further behind. It is the parent that has to sit with the child for each and every little step on these parts so that the project is completed properly. It's the parent who looks up everything on the internet for the child (the last thing an 11 year old need to do is google the wrong thing, trust me you can get porn just from googleing Barbie). It is the parent that must supervise every little minute of the process (thank God I only have one kid with a project to do). There are very few kids that can handle the responsibility of this kind of project.

And what about the kids who don't have much more than a couple of bucks to put toward this project. What about the kids who don't have a computer to print everything up on. They are at a great disadvantage right from the start. I remember in high school the kid who won built a simulated tornado out of wood and sheet metal. Now I know for fact he didn't rivet and weld that thing himself, or do all of it by himself.

Here's one of my favorites. The child who's parent is a scientist and has put together a project that is so far advanced from the childs level it's obvious the child could not have possibly thought up the concept by themselves. Last year this 5th grade kid put together something I couldn't do myself.

Now these things would be as big of a deal to me if the science fair was optional but here it is not. It's a monumental waiste of family time. If I'm going to spend that much time with my kid it should be doing something that we enjoy. Not something that I have to constantly nag and push about. Each year this project has brought me to tears one way or another. Can you just imagine how the kids feel. They don't know what they are doing. They are to imature to handle it and are completely overwhelmed by it.

It also seems that it is inevitable that it is either raining or extremely windy on the day that they turn in thier projects. Not to mention they need help carrying the display and items in as they are to bulky to deal with themselves.

Oh and here's the kicker the teacher is still sending the regular homework packet that they normally do so this huge project is on top of all the regular stuff.

Whoever decided that the science fair should be mandatory should be slapped.

Reply by LilyMD on 1/17/06 6:51pm
Msg #88945

When my sister was faced with this last year with her daughter, I gave her the old stand by I used with both of my kids. Clouds. Yes, clouds. This is so easy for any kid. They get to take pictures of the sky and then identify the clouds. They get to tell a little about each time of cloud and etc, etc, etc. It can be a plain jane project or a very fancy one. You can print the pictures and put it on a board. The possibilities are there and best of all, the kid can do most of it instead of the other way around.

Reply by srnotary_CA on 1/17/06 6:52pm
Msg #88946

I agree with you whover decided it should be mandatory should be slapped. It always turns into the parents project. I hate these things as well.

Reply by Jenny_CA on 1/17/06 6:55pm
Msg #88947

I can relate. I think this year my daoughter's class will do do the project as a group ( not sure) but next year she'll have to do it herself.

I also dread the selling of a home and all the preparations that come with it.

My daughter's godfather is a civil engineer and he wanted his 3rd grader to compare the wind velocity of an airplane versus other machines. I suggested they grow mold instead.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 1/17/06 7:17pm
Msg #88959

My sympathies, I was a science fair judge a number of

times for the regional science fair held in Los Angeles. I'm a nuclear engineer by training and I was often requested to do science fair judging as part of a team. I agree that science fairs should be voluntary. When I was a kid they used to be however parents still helped out. I remember losing a science fair to a kid who build a fully operational fuel cell using technology I know he didn't possess and equipment that only a government project could afford: his dad was a scientist at a university pioneering fuel cells.

I believe that not everyone will be a science whiz. There are great kids who just don't have science as a talent. They may be brilliant writers, musicians, artists or have a brilliant mind for mathematics but science they don't do. They shouldn't be forced to participate because I believe that it can make the kids feel inferior if they don't do well.

I am afraid that schools are losing touch with reality and we see that in redeuced learning and as far as science fairs go there has been a reduction in the quality of project, at least while I was judging, largely due to the short lead times and the pressure of academics imposed by the schools.

Reply by Jenny_CA on 1/17/06 7:26pm
Msg #88961

Re: My sympathies, I was a science fair judge a number of

What I don't like is that they expect these science projects and yet don't spend too much time teaching science, it needs to be more hands on.

Two summers ago we paid for my daughter to go to Camp Invention, last year there was not enough people signed up for it to happen. I tried to get the school to support it, at least hand out flyers that I had printed and I was told that they could not promote outside school events .

Reply by Charles_Ca on 1/17/06 7:35pm
Msg #88965

I believe that parents must take education into their own

hands. The schools are necessary but often not the schools fall terribly short of what should be a good education and its not all the teachers' fault. The teachers have a lot of pressure to do things other than to teach. I've spent an awful lot of time and money to try and get my daughter a decent because she just wasn't getting it in public school. Unfortunately I also tried sending her to private school and the product wasn't any better. There is also the problem of teaches teaching subjects that they do not specialize in. Just because a teacher teaches science or mathematics doesn't mean that they know it themselves. When my daughter started Algebra in High School I had to sit down with her and go over all the math she had learned from 1st grade: she has done well since. I was actually berated by a teacher when my daughter was in 3rd grade because I insisted that she learn her multiplication tables by heart. the teacher told me that it was unnecessary stress. I think two weeks of unnecessary stress outweighs a lifetime feeling inadequate. Of course my daughter didn't want to spend those two weeks but when she nailed the advanced placement exams in math she thanked me for it.

Reply by Jenny_CA on 1/17/06 7:54pm
Msg #88972

Re: I believe that parents must take education into their own

You might laugh at this but when I found out I was pregnant with my daughter I signed up and took twelve units in child development at CSUF . Aslo took the Montessori training and am two classes short from the certificate. I was hired at the Montessori school she attended.

I often feel the same way you were made to feel. My daughter was reading and telling time in kindergarten she used to come home saying she was bored. Last year year when I asked the second grade teacher if they could switch her to the third grade class during math she said that if they did that then what would she learn in 3rd grade. She is in the top 25% of the Californian students who take the standards.

On the other hand I have my younger daughter who is having trouble learning her colors, numbers and so forth even with the Montessori lessons I teach her.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 1/17/06 8:21pm
Msg #88980

Different kids, different abilites

If it were me I would concentrate on each childs strengths. Your older daughter needs the challenge or she may get bored and decide that school is not for her. I had that trouble with mine, whe was constantly getting into trouble in school. I remember she got suspended once because she didn't like something the teacher told her to do and she got a petition, had everyone in school sign it against the teacher and then presented it to the principal. The teacher thought that was a terrible thing to do, I suggested that the teacher should have taken the opportunity to teach a civics lesson on civil activism: I prevailed but the lesson never came. In Jr. High School she had an english teacher she couldn't stand and one day when he asked that the kids draw a caricature of a character in the book she drew the teacher. The teacher insisted that she be suspended. The principal agreed and my daughter contacted the ACLU student division claiming the school violated her rights to free seech. You have never in you life seen anyone do such an abrupt about face like her principal did. My daughter was bored and she found ways to amuse herself.

On the other hand your younger daughter may be excelllent in areas you haven't dicovered yet.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 1/18/06 5:03am
Msg #89024

Re: I believe that parents must take education into their own

I thank God every day that I am past this stage of life - having raised one 'Indigo' child with an IQ in the 99th percentile, and another child who was of the 'wallpaper/woodwork' variety, I feel like I could write a book about the failings of 'mass' education.

One thing I was told long years ago really rung true - the primary purpose of the education system we have IS NOT education, but management of the populace. As the Industrial Age dawned, it became necessary to the survival of society - and it HAS evolved in purpose and structure, but ... evolution is not exactly a speedy process.

One of my favorite memories is of my son when, in 2nd grade, he rose from his seat, said "uh ... there's been a mistake here, I belong in 3rd grade" and he marched off to the principal's office. When THAT didn't work - he 'quit' and left, apparently undetected. When he turned up missing - the police were sent hunting him down (before cell phones - I was paged). Since I wasn't home, he went to a neighbor's - she called school, they sent police. Cop says "come with me, son" and the boy - who was no dummy - said "Not unless you hand over the gun, I'm not going ANYWHERE with you until you hand over the gun."

Oh yes, Thank You God! I love being an empty nester!!!

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/18/06 8:11am
Msg #89045

Re: I believe that parents must take education into their own

What a kid! I would have been frightened of that one...LOL...Hand over the gun? What a scream.

First day of school in K, mine was to ride the bus to daycare. Only it passed by our house first. The bus driver said, "If you see your house, raise your hand." My son raised his hand. The bus driver stopped and said, "You can get off now." So, my five year and four month old baby walked the half-block to our house and amazingly, we had not locked the garage/back door that morning so he could get in. He had to raise the garage door by himself, though and that was not easy.

He turned on the tv and started watching...never had been alone at home for one minute before.

An hour later the daycare realized he was missing and one of the teachers did not hesitate. She jumped in her car and went straight to my house and picked him up. His eyes filled up with tears as soon as he saw her because he was scared to death.

Several moms (busy bodies) called to tell me they hear what had happened and I needed to [do any number of things mean] to the school for that. I think the busdriver was nice and she was overwhelmed. All's well that ends well.

Reply by Martha Gall on 1/17/06 8:26pm
Msg #88981

Re: Science Fair

I'm old, so when my kids were involved it wasn't mandatory. I did make them do their own
projects. It was sad - they weren't scientifically bent. Oh well it worked out okay - one is a patent attorney, one is a CPA, on is a mechanics instructor for Mercedes. So all is not lost on one project.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 1/17/06 8:38pm
Msg #88982

SarahBeth, I bet there's a market for a new business here, "rent-a-science-project Parent". With a little research, some basic understanding of science and what teachers really want to see in a project, a parent could hire someone to oversee and GUARANTEE an A on the project (or your money back). Come science fair time, I bet the right person could make a lot of money from parents out of time and out of ideas for the annual project.

These teachers have got to know that it's the parents project, anyways. Why not just go for it and hire an expert? I had a friend once who raced those jet type cars...he once did a project for his 5th grade son that described how to build a mini-jet. He only got a C because the teacher didn't believe his son actually welded all the parts together. A real expert would dumb down a fancy project like that - you know, think like a 5th grader.

I once did one about the quality of bubble gum, "Which brand of bubble gum makes the biggest bubbles?". Bazooka won....but I didn't get such a good grade on that one.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 1/17/06 9:03pm
Msg #88989

You bet TG, Bazooka rocks!!! NM

Reply by Julie Williams on 1/17/06 8:46pm
Msg #88984

I feel you pain!

I just returned from Michael's after spending $36 on a REGULAR CLASS ASSIGNMENT for my 5th grader--he had to do a 3-d plant cell and was instructed to be creative! I had to buy a glue gun, glue sticks, floral wire, styrofoam balls for the nucleus, (which I had to cut, so my kid didn't loose a finger) , playdough in different colors for the mitochondrion & vacuole, paint brushes, pipecleaners for the cytoplasm, I hate crafts so I didn't have this crap laying around the house. He DID do the rest, but it's so fragile, I have to drive the project to school so the kids don't ruin it on the bus. Then the teacher's instructions say to keep it simple and fun!

Reply by Beth/MD on 1/17/06 8:54pm
Msg #88987

Re: All of this brings back painful memories.

I'm thinking having kids might be a problem!

Reply by christiSocal on 1/17/06 8:56pm
Msg #88988

I was so happy when my last kid went to middle school!

And I no longer had to mess with that stuff. There are projects, but they are geared more for the students rather than the parents to do. So there is hope..........

Reply by SLP_VA on 1/17/06 10:23pm
Msg #89011

Hey Julie!!

Are you in VA by chance?? My 5th grade son just completed the same project! They only had a week to finish this! What a headache!

Reply by Julie Williams on 1/18/06 6:52am
Msg #89028

Re: Hey Julie!!

I'm in Michigan. Discovery Works is the science book by Houghton Mifflin.

Reply by SLP_VA on 1/18/06 7:03am
Msg #89030

Re: Hey Julie!!

Yep, same book. Wow..Good luck with that. My husband and I helped our son and it seems like we did most of the project! The note sent home from the teacher stated it was OK for parents to help, but goodness! Seems like we did more than help!

Reply by Brenda Stone on 1/18/06 8:12am
Msg #89046

I totally agree SB. Slap them twice. Once for me.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 1/18/06 11:43am
Msg #89153

Re: OT-Science Fair, A Project for the student or the parent

I spoke to my sons teacher. Here's a little background on this also. The day my son brought home the packet was the day we started painting the house, steam cleaning, etc to get ready to show. So in the first week that we had for the project there was no time to work on it, my printer was unhooked and half the time so was the pc. I didn't have time to sit over my sons shoulder. So we were looking at doing the whole thing in only 2 weeks. The teacher said that since we are moving his report card wouldn't be complete for the whole grading period so he doesn't need to do it. She understands the source of grief the project is and what it takes to get ready to move across country (she was in NY until 2 years ago). She stated "don't worry about doing it".

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Today is Independance Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!