Posted by CarolynCO on 1/12/06 3:52pm
Msg #87946

Received a call from Borrower

Signing is in a couple of hours. Docs e-mailed last night. Printed and copied this morning. BO just called asking what latitude I have with these docs. I explained that it was going to be a closing, explained the 3-day RTC, explained that I couldn't give UPL ...

He said he was asking because he just spoke with LO who told him that he would call during the signing and tell me to change figures -- um, I don't think so!! BO said it had to do with points and he would end up receiving more money -- I told him that he was getting $xx -- considerably less than the amount he quoted me that he was getting before changing the figures.

While we were talking, LO sent the HUD that I have. BO said it wasn't going to fly and he would get back with me.

BO has a fax. If they are changing the figures, WHY don't they fax the new pages to BO, instead of telling BO that they will authorize me to make the changes over the phone? I told BO if they put something in writing authorizing me to change such and such from such and such to such and such, then I would consider doing so, but to protect myself and BO, that I wouldn't do it verbally.

What's everyone else's take on it?

Reply by Charm_AL on 1/12/06 3:58pm
Msg #87953

I'm with you on this one, make them put it in writing to protect your butt and tell the LO to send the new HUD to the borrower before you go out so that he can approve it before you waste your time.

Reply by Janlee_MI on 1/12/06 4:02pm
Msg #87956

I would make sure they give you a New HUD. Because you know you will have to make another trip to get it signed. Call the Signing Company or Title Company to find out what to do.

Reply by CarolynCO on 1/12/06 4:04pm
Msg #87958

The HUD is just one of the docs that LO expects me to change. Nope, won't do it.

Reply by CarolynCO on 1/12/06 4:03pm
Msg #87957

Thanks, Charm. My take on the situation is down the road, I don't want to get into a he said/she said situation and me and the BO with nothing to back anything up.

BO is to call me as to what is happening, so I don't make a wasted trip.

The killer on this loan, is throughout the 140 some pages, there are several instances "DO NOT CHANGE DOCUMENTS."

I'm not selling this loan. If LO wants things changed, they can do so before I get there.

Reply by John_NCal on 1/12/06 4:01pm
Msg #87955

Re: You are definitely right & I agree with Charm nm

Reply by NM_CO on 1/12/06 4:17pm
Msg #87962

I wouldn't do it

I wouldn't change a thing. They should fix the docs for you! :P

Reply by eXpedN_TX on 1/12/06 4:29pm
Msg #87965

I wouldn't change the docs either. If it were a correction here and there that the lender put in writing to change, I would probably have the borrower make the change and initial it, then write up a note of the agreement and have the borrower sign that as well to put with the paperwork. That's a tricky situation to be placed in. Glad you told them to make the fixes and get back to you when the fixes are complete and ready to sign. Keep us posted.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 1/12/06 4:48pm
Msg #87970

Keep in mind that just about any change to the HUD...

other than escrows and title co charges requires a whole bunch of changes
to the TIL and Itemization.
Way too easy for someone to mess up
Remember that whatever goes wrong, the Notary is the easy one to blame.
Dox are printed, I'm ottahere.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 1/12/06 6:54pm
Msg #87998

Re: Keep in mind that just about any change to the HUD...

I am not a finance or title expert so I don't believe I should have any part in the prep of any doc in the package other than having Mr. B correct and initial spelling of name or address. Even when I have them do it I contact the hiring agency and let them know so I can include a note saying "per so and so do such and such". My philosophy is do the job right, get paid, move on to the next one, and never give them a reason to Blame The Notary.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 1/13/06 4:41am
Msg #88061

Huds are revised at the last minute all the time, especially the broker's fees. This is why you see so many Huds that have a SEPARATE signature page. (Allows for revisions to be input into T/A system and re-printed AFTER signed, and yes that IS done by them all the time. Many lenders won't accept hand-written changes to Huds. I am NOT insinuating this would be done w/o consent or knowledge of anyone who signed, nor that it would be done harmfully to anyone.)

I have no problem with these revisions, under the direction of the appropriate person(s). I have a thorough knowledge of Huds, fees, and what other docs might be affected and am confident of being able to determine when things are 'on the up and up'.

As far as the Til being made non-compliant as a result of a fee change - that's a post-close issue for lender, and they'll handle it as such.

I think I sometimes come across in written word as being ... a PITA? Let me add that I take myself far less seriously than I might sound, and far less seriously than I take my JOB. Anyway ... as I've said before, it is MY business decision to become as closely joined to the T/A's right hand as possible - so that my services may truly be a mobile extension of their own closing rooms. I strive to be an 'added value' to the limit of that possibility.

Reply by CarolynCO on 1/13/06 9:12am
Msg #88095

Re: Thanks for your input, Renee

The problem I had with this situation was that the LO was L-A-Z-Y, and wanted to go home instead of taking the time to revise/correct the HUD and other docs which these changes affected. Instead, he faxed to Borrower a one line/one paragraph statement "change such and such to $xxx and change such and such to $xxx."

Borrower told him that he preferred the signing be postponed until all docs could be corrected/printed, but LO said there wouldn't be a problem. Maybe yes, and maybe no -- but, why was the LO so insistent that the signing had to be done last night?

Also, there was 140+ pages to this refi, so it was obvious it wasn't going to be finished in 15-30 minutes. Even if there was not time to get the revised pages to me *before* leaving for the signing, Borrower had his own fax machine, so the revised pages could have been faxed at any time during the signing.

I never keep any Borrower loan documents, but Borrower gave me permission to keep the hand-written changed pages for my own records along with the LO's one-line instruction.

Reply by PA_Notary_II on 1/13/06 9:23am
Msg #88098

Re: Call from borrower

In my humble opinion....."As far as the TIL being made non-compliant as a result of a fee change - that's a post-close issue for lender, and they'll handle it as such"....that's just plain wrong. That is a RESPA issue that would result in disclosing an incorrect APR.....as Chicago Bob said...any change to the charges on the HUD will result in a required change to the TIL.
Also, any changes to the HUD can only be made by the TC....the LO has absolutely nothing to do with it after he/she agrees to alter their charges. The HUD must be changed by the TC and approved by the lender before it can be presented to the Bwr. At the same time, the TC will make a new TIL to go along with the HUD.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 1/14/06 5:17am
Msg #88326

Re: Call from borrower

The Hud is produced/printed by the T/C, under the direction of the Lender. All the L/O could do at that point was give you permission to change his fee. His fee, his choice - getting another Hud sent to borrower's fax asap isn't as easy to do when you have to get someone else to drop everything and do it.

As far as the TIL goes - lowering a fee that is included in the APR (not all fees ARE included) provides a far greater margin for compliance than INCREASING it. The TIL is NOT done by T/C, but by lender - and revised TIL's are flying around the nation post-close by the thousands at this very moment.

L/O's lowering their fee at the table due to Borrower's bottom line being less than they want or were advised is right up there at the top of the list of Reasons Loans Fall Apart At The Table. L/O's have the right to lower their own fee. Huds are 'hand-corrected' all day long - especially the 'three page' ones w/ separate signature page. IF a new TIL is called for, Lender will send it.

Two possible situations:

(1) borrower refuses to sign because cash-back is too short. L/O is called, says "lower my fee to X" and SA says "sorry, no can do." T/C is closed, no new Hud can be produced. Loan now needs to be redrawn, rescheduled, possibly different rate, nobody is happy. SA also expects trip fee. Were this signed AT the T/C, there would have been no issue.

(2) as above, but SA says "ok, will hand-revise at your expressed direction". Hud hand-changed, initialled, re-calculated at appropriate places. T/C receives pkg, changes system to revised figures, sends to Lender for revised TIL (IF needed), reprints pgs 1 & 2 of Hud, sends items to Borrower. Everyone is happy. Nothing is wrong, illegal, immoral, etc.

Again - SA becomes a service with VALUE ADDED =)

Now, at the risk of being too wordy - I have the experience and background to know quite a bit about what I do. Many SA's are less experienced - and everyone must act within their own boundaries of what they are confident and sure of. The info is out there to continue to learn, and the more you can learn - the greater the added value of your services.