Posted by Mike Photon on 7/19/06 5:48pm
Msg #134152

Back to basics

A basic question.
If the document doesn't have the correct notarial wording, do you attach a certificate or write it down on the document (if there is space, of course) ?
CA ack takes up a lot of space and time to write down myself on the doc so I prefer to attach a cert. But Jurat is probably easier to put down under the wrong wording after striking it out.
Do I need to ask the signer what he/she prefers?
I personally hate attaching loose cert to docs, and feel very good when I see a doc with correct wording.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 7/19/06 6:57pm
Msg #134156

You need to ask the signer what he/she prefers...or you may be in violation of UPL...also once decided, you would then attached a loose cert to doc, at least imho...(what do I know...I'm just an old man)...:-) "Doc"

Reply by Brad_CA on 7/19/06 8:50pm
Msg #134165

It is never up to the signer when we as Notaries make the decision to attach a loose certificate to a document because of improper notarial verbage.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 7/19/06 9:23pm
Msg #134169

what i meant was it's not up to us to decide what "type" of certificate...but you are correct, WE make the decision to attach a loose certificate...but we do not make the choice of the type, i.e. jurat, acknowlegement etc. "Doc"

Reply by Brad_CA on 7/19/06 9:32pm
Msg #134171

Absolutely correct.

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/19/06 9:39pm
Msg #134172

You can buy a jurat stamp on this site that has the correct CA wording. I'm able to use that on probably 90% of the docs that need the wording changed.

As for the acknowledgement, I don't know if any stamps for that exist, but I just attach loose certificates when needed.

Reply by Brad_CA on 7/19/06 9:43pm
Msg #134174

There is an acknowledgement stamp available on gmn.

Reply by Brad_CA on 7/19/06 9:51pm
Msg #134176

http://www.notarysupplyshop.com/notary-stamps/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/40/products_id/178?osCsid=b1a8628591f7390974c7fea23ae6c743


California Acknowledgement Stamp (UM-30 ACK) $19.95.

Reply by John_NorCal on 7/19/06 9:54pm
Msg #134177

Lot easier and cleaner to attach an all purpose ack, after all who legible can an acknowledgement stamp be with all the required wording, etc?

Reply by Brad_CA on 7/19/06 10:01pm
Msg #134178

I use mine all the time when space will allow. The impression is crisp and clean. No problems at all.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/19/06 10:30pm
Msg #134186

GMN?

What the hell..Harry of Notary Rotary does the same.

Ring a bell?

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/19/06 10:24pm
Msg #134184

OMG, this thread bothers me on so many levels. n/m

Reply by Brad_CA on 7/20/06 12:35am
Msg #134196

Re: OMG, this thread bothers me on so many levels.

Can you be more specific as to what is bothering you?

Reply by KBLedgard_CA on 7/20/06 1:08am
Msg #134201

Re: OMG, this thread bothers me on so many levels.

Hi Brad, I'm not a mind reader but I saw a few things that could offend someone:

1) Rules state “Do not advertise competing websites, directly or indirectly, without prior approval. We spend thousands of dollars per month to advertise our service for your benefit. We would rather not be paying to advertise for the benefit of our competitors. This includes sites like 123 and goMobile.
a. 2 different websites were mentioned in this thread
b.that offer competing products.
b. Lack of respect to Harry and NotRot by posting those links
2) A notary contemplating writing the notarial wording down instead of simply using a loose cert (“If the document doesn't have the correct notarial wording, do you attach a certificate or write it down on the document (if there is space, of course) ?”
a. If you have a loose cert, why would you even consider writing notarial wording down?
3) This person doesn’t know their state laws or what UPL means(Do I need to ask the signer what he/she prefers?)
4) Personal opinions/feelings don’t matter as much as doing the job right and follow the law. ("I personally hate attaching loose cert to docs, and feel very good when I see a doc with correct wording."

Reply by KBLedgard_CA on 7/20/06 1:10am
Msg #134203

Clicked post too soon

Now, I don't pretend to speak for TG but I think that those 4 things are pretty disturbing? Just MHO

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 7/20/06 8:44am
Msg #134229

Re: Clicked post too soon

ding ding ding, you got it Kyle. You have got to respect the commission and the boards. Know your rules and laws.

Reply by Brad_CA on 7/20/06 5:32pm
Msg #134300

Re: Clicked post too soon

I respect Harry and this board. A person asked where they could obtain an acknowledgement stamp, and I provided it for them. There is no competition, because Harry does not offer this stamp. I have purchased all of my supplies from this site, except that stamp. As far as knowing the rules and laws, I am certified to teach Notary classes and Loan Signing Agent Classes. Not to mention my extensive experience in this industry.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/20/06 9:03am
Msg #134232

Re: Back to basics - Mike

**I personally hate attaching loose cert to docs, and feel very good when I see a doc with correct wording.**

Mike, Having been a legal secretary first as a notary public, I can tell you that every other document we drafted which required notarization did not have the jurat or ack on the last page of the document. A notarial cert as the last page is not an anomaly.

Create yourself a stack of California Jurats and Acks for your notary notebook. Get those page sleeves which you can slip ten or so into. If you don't want to carry the notebook, just get the sleeves and carrry them with you. That way you are prepared at the table.

For whatever reason, some Tx deed recorders will not accept a stamp on the last page.

Disclaimer: No legal advice here...just a notary talking.

Reply by Mike Photon on 7/20/06 12:08pm
Msg #134260

Re: Back to basics - Mike

Thanks for the response Brenda. Yes, I have printed out copies of Jurat and Ack certs from sos website and carry them with me.

A notary friend of mine once had his notarization rejected just because he attached a loose Jurat cert.
It was on an Affidavit of support for non-immigrant visa form I-134.
( http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/files/i-134.pdf ) If you see the notarial wording, you'll know there is no way we can get away with that in CA.
When somebody brought me the same form, I called NNA helpline and they said the same thing - that DHS "doesn't like" attached certs. So she instructed me to write the missing info between the lines (venue, how the signer was identified etc.), and you see there is no space for seal. She told me to put it under question 11, where there was enough blank space.
Later on I have done many I-134 s, all the same way. Never had an issue. I have no idea why "DHS doesn't like" attachments, but I'm thinking there may be others like the DHS that don't like attached certs.
Does anybody know any other?

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/20/06 12:45pm
Msg #134262

Re: Back to basics - Mike

Well, Mike, this is not an answer to your query, however, if the government issues the form, I will notarize it as it is because I won't fool around with that any more because I have learned a new notary lesson.

I had a strange bird of a form come through the other day which I will not go into. I called the SOS and told her it came from a lawyer.

She said go ahead and do it if (criteria discussed) because neither of us want to be seen as committing UPL. A *Tx* lawyer prepared it, he presented to you for this special purpose...so...

And, I did.

I said all that to say that I learned a lesson from that.

The Texas Notary Police are most concerned about us not practicing law in Tx. A word missing here and there on a form, or a notary signing a weird form and placing their seal will not get us jailed....however, UPL and arguing with Tx lawyers just might.

No arguments here with our lawyers...love 'em. Want to get along with 'em. So does the SOS.

Reply by Mike Photon on 7/20/06 1:30pm
Msg #134268

Really? You'd notarize I-134 as it is...

... without venue and mention of how the signer was identified and without the seal, because it's issued by uncle Sam???
I'm sure you must have done hundreads of this form, so I think may be I read you incorrectly.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/20/06 1:54pm
Msg #134270

Re: Really? You'd notarize I-134 as it is... Mike - Yep.

Subscribed and sworn to (affirmed) before me this day of
>>>>>>at_______________________<<<<<<<<<<<<

It has info for the venue between >>><<<< to fill my tx needs.

And, in Texas this is sufficient jurat wording.

No. I have not done 100's of these, however, I would notarize this without an extra mark anywhere on it. Let's see what Cali, et al say for Ca.

Just remember that I was a notary public before the Nat'l Notary Plant Co. was anything more than a membership organization which sold a few courses a journal and a seal.

In my experience before the NNPCo. decided they wanted to sell education tools and fraud prevention devices there was not a lot of propaganda to sell the agenda that "Oh-My-God-the freaking fraud-sky is falling!!! Run for cover...or...Wait! You can buy our products and be safe!"

It seems to me that the Ca legislature has been invaded by the scare tactics but I could be wrong...anyhooty...I do a good job as a notary public but I do not suspect every form that comes down the pipeline so that I have to check with National Notary Plant Security....if it meets my state criteria, well, BOOM, she's done.

And, Mike, I am not saying you are too concerned, or calling NNPS, or anything negative...I am saying the fear agenda is there in California and it's rampant because it works.

Loans generated the need for more notaries.
More notaries meant more people to sale to.
Selling means wealth, power, and fear tactics.

Be honest, be careful to ID properly and move to Texas. You'll be fine then.

Reply by Sragland_AR on 7/20/06 7:55pm
Msg #134312

Amen Brenda, you go girl. n/m

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 7/20/06 9:52pm
Msg #134333

I teach for notaryclasses.com

Go to our homepage and scroll down the right side to approx. the middle and you can download free Ca Ack & Jurat loose certificates.

This download is available free 365 days a year!