Posted by NCLisa on 7/4/06 6:10pm
Msg #130755

Crystal Singletary copied my webpage almost verbatim

I was surfing the web for Raleigh notaries today and I come across this website. Well the wording seems familiar, so I go a little farther, and she copied everything almost verbatim down to my pricing!!!

She even copied my blurb at the bottom of my prices page.

Reply by Jason on 7/4/06 6:58pm
Msg #130761

File small claims court for copyright infringement.

Show no mercy.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/4/06 8:03pm
Msg #130762

While I think Jason's idea sounds great, I don't know if it can be done in small claims court without a way to prove damages. Contrary to popular belief, I don't think I know everything, and I'd be interest to hear how this can be done.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/4/06 8:07pm
Msg #130765

I am remembering another thread

previous...the Adams' and the charge (here on Notary Rotary) that they did the same. I remember because they were local to me.

I didn't search it prior to this post - if your info is copyrighted, it seems a given that you would take this to the next level.

An attorney can guide you as to whether or not you've suffered damage.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/4/06 8:20pm
Msg #130771

Re: I am remembering another thread

**An attorney can guide you as to whether or not you've suffered damage.**

Agreed, but if we are talking small claims court that kind of kicks the low cost purpose of it right out the door. The easist small claims court suit to win is one where you have an invoice to show you have paid money for an item, or you are owed money for an item. This is why I had a question.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/4/06 8:41pm
Msg #130775

It is all about what you want to venture into

If you as an independent contractor thinks you have been damaged by another notary copying your webite...IMO if it were me, I'd be incensed and ready to take my case to the Supreme Court.

In reality - it is different. An individual contractor has to weight the benefits and damage.

My thought was an attorney could guide those that were questioning it.

Reply by NCLisa on 7/4/06 8:56pm
Msg #130776

She is in the same county I am in

The thing that really had me fuming is that she is in the same county that I'm in, she even took my price list. I've been doing this for 16 years, and she's new to the field. She even has a christian link to her very christian other website on the notary page. That made me even angrier that she'd steal from me. She also searched my name on the net, saw where I advertised, and/or bought the same type ads or joined the same dir.

I sent her a scathing email, and she said she'd take my content out of her website immediately. She didn't realize it was copyrighted. I saw from doing a search on her name that she is a recent college grad, isn't plagerzing taught to be just darn wrong in college? UGH. This just makes me ill.

I realize my website isn't wonderful, I put it together in 10 minutes while I work on designing a logo and flash content. But really, same area, same words, same advertising?! I am so angry that my heart is just pounding.

Reply by Crystal_NC on 7/4/06 9:37pm
Msg #130779

Re: She is in the same county I am in

I am sorry that I made you ill and I am publicly apologizing. My web site has been up for 3 days and I didn't see that your was copyright. So, I guess I am getting what I deserve. I will work to continue to change my web site so that there are no similarities. Again, I am sorry.

Reply by PAW on 7/4/06 9:50pm
Msg #130785

Copyright notice is NOT REQUIRED for protection

The following information is available from the copyright website (http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html) and is presented here for your own edification:

Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration.

The use of a copyright notice is no longer required under U. S. law, although it is often beneficial. Because prior law did contain such a requirement, however, the use of notice is still relevant to the copyright status of older works.

Notice was required under the 1976 Copyright Act. This requirement was eliminated when the United States adhered to the Berne Convention, effective March 1, 1989.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/4/06 9:42pm
Msg #130782

Re: She is in the same county - You should be very angry

I do not disagree with TitleGal. In fact, I am going to toady up to her in another thread here in a minute.

I guess what I am saying is that small claim's court would be the second step. A letter from an attorney would cost you about the same as small claim's court and would put her on notice. It would probably fix the problem, however, if it does not, then I'd go to Small Claims Court. You'd have the letter from the attorney to show you've made efforts to get the point across to the woman and I think it would lend credibility to your cause, if you can pursue this in the inferior court at all. I am all ears on this. I do not know if damages without concrete evidence of damage could be won in small claims court. That's my point.

Hopefully, Kevin/CT will comment on this and give us some idea of what he thinks can be achieved in small claims court. He seems to be sensitive to signing agent trials and tribulations.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 7/4/06 8:15pm
Msg #130769

I contracted an attorney to copyright my website when I used him to trademark my logo and tagline. I would use him to represent me if I really had to. There is an individual who plagerized (sp?) alot of my pages and wording. I contacted him directly and after a few emails back and forth he finally complied to some extent. Although when you click on his Notary Rotary Profile link it brings up mine!!!!! I've mentioned this to him several times but he's never changed it. For almost a year now I've had the code view of my site unavailable to people, and the copy feature is unavailable also. Although, if you're computer saavy you could figure out a way to copy it.

Reply by Crystal_NC on 7/4/06 9:38pm
Msg #130780

Lisa,

I am sorry that I made you ill and I am publicly apologizing. My web site has been up for 3 days and I didn't see that your was copyright. So, I guess I am getting what I deserve. I will work to continue to change my web site so that there are no similarities. Again, I am sorry.

Reply by KBLedgard_CA on 7/4/06 9:49pm
Msg #130784

What? Say it isn't True, Brenda?

You don't know it all? C'mon? You're pulling my leg, aren't you?

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/4/06 10:08pm
Msg #130791

Re: What? Say it isn't True, Brenda?

Kyle - go back and read, I said, "I don't *think* I know everything." This should clear everything up.

Reply by NCLisa on 7/4/06 10:20pm
Msg #130796

Re: What? Say it isn't True, Brenda?

ROFL

Reply by LynnNC on 7/5/06 7:51am
Msg #130819

Why didn't you call her or send her an email . . .

. . . rather than making this post? I would have seen her copying my website as compliment, but then explained to Crystal that it was not right, and in fact plagarism, it copy it. I would suggest that she look at many websites to get ideas, then create one of her own. I doubt that Cyrstal had evil intent, but due to her inexperience, did not have her own ideas and was lazy.

Reply by Crystal_NC on 7/5/06 8:01am
Msg #130821

Re: Why didn't you call her or send her an email . . .

Thank you Lynn your comment is appreciated. Lisa did send me an email and I told her I would start to change it immediately, which I did and I appologized. I explained that I was new and that it was not and my intentions were not to harm her in any way. I thought her web site was put together very well and I thought it was a good template, but I guess I am learning the hard way.I didn't realize it was copyright.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/6/06 2:51am
Msg #131034

Re: Why didn't you call her or send her an email . . .

I'm afraid that ignorance is no excuse in this situation - and the copyright is beside the point. Not considering what it took for her to contruct a website that was "put together very well" was thoughtless on your part, but as you indicated, you have hopefully learned a hard lesson. People often come into this business expecting that a lot of the hard work has been or should be done for them and tend to look for the short cuts and easy way out. That approach will eventually hurt you because you miss out on some of the growth and learning that comes with the hard work and makes you better at what you do! (You might want to check msg #95867 for an additional attitude check...)

While I agree with Kelly that to at least attempt a direct approach would have been a better way to deal with it, I have to say that I'd probably have been upset, too, and might not have thought of that either. Kudos to you, though, for having the gumption to apologize!

"I guess I am learning the hard way." Sometimes experience is the best teacher!

Reply by NCLisa on 7/5/06 8:18am
Msg #130823

If you had read the entire thread, you would have seen

that I did send her an email.

It is not a compliment when someone that is competing with you, in your same county, let alone area "steals" the content of your website. While my website isn't pretty, the content is important. Not only that, she took my price list. One that I have worked very hard on, and have 16 years of experience, so that pay is relevent to my experience. Besides stealing the content, she chose to buy an ad that runs hers above mine, and she has the same exact content? I should be happy? This is my primary source of income, and I am a single mother, this her secondary income.

I worked very hard on my website content, on my ad budget, how much to spend, what directories to join, etc. And to have it all stolen in a 3 day period is totally and completely disheartening. Yes, she STOLE from me, and the intention was clear, to steal my business using my own content and ad ideas.

Reply by LynnNC on 7/5/06 8:37am
Msg #130825

I think that you are overreacting.

I doubt that Crystal's intent was to "steal" your business, but as I wrote in my earlier post, she was too inexperienced in this business to have the content to create her own and was lazy.

She said she would change her website, so let it go.

Reply by Kelly M Robertson on 7/5/06 8:40am
Msg #130827

I would have given the notice a couple days before I posted

While I agree that it was wrong that the site was copied (I look at it has someone who was lazy) once you advised the woman you were "on to her", I would have given her a reasonable amount of time to correct the problem before I blasted her publicly on a large and active message board. I don't know the whole story, but I think starting a thread on this with her full name was in very poor taste. This sounds like it could have been resolved at the lowest level (between the both of you) and become just a "lesson learned". People make mistakes - EVERYONE.

Reply by kathy/ca on 7/5/06 9:55am
Msg #130840

You are WAY overeacting, no matter what the intention was,

it was only for a couple days, she changed it immediatly, apologized, now let it go! Blasting her publicly in a highly trafficed forum is making you look like you are "wronging" HER, not the other way around. Let it go, sh** happens. If it had been me I would have emailed her, accepted her apology if she immediatly changed her verbiage to her own and gone on with the REAL business of life. This is just another perspective that will hopefully help you let this thing go.

Reply by NCLisa on 7/5/06 10:31am
Msg #130848

And how would I know whether her site was up a week or

6 months? I never bothered to look before. I was just bored and sitting around and did a couple searches, and clicked on the results. If I had not, this could have gone on forever. My hard work, not working for me, but for someone else! If someone can steal from you, aren't they capable of lying about it too?

Stealing content is just plain wrong. I could see if it had been taken from the site of a CA or FL notary, but not one in the exact same service area!

I spent a lot of time putting together the information that was included in my "signup" packages and which eventually became part of my webpage, my fee schedule, the areas that I service. I mean lots of time over a 2 year period. This is my primary job and I am a single mother so I painstakingly try to put together information that will put forth my experience and get me business along with marketing, marketing, marketing.

So if I am your direct competitor and go to your webpage and just copy everything and make it mine, you won't be upset?

Reply by kathy/ca on 7/5/06 10:37am
Msg #130850

Upset, yes, but not to this extreme I dont think. In any

case, what more can you do now? Hasnt it been handled and isnt it time to let it go? Life is too short to hang on to things after we have done all we can to "fix" them.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 7/5/06 10:46am
Msg #130851

Re: Kathy with all due respect I think Lisa has every right

to be more then furious, this was just plain wrong and even though an apology has been made on the board. I guess I for one expected words like your right Lisa I stole your stuff it was wrong I was wrong. I did read the apology but one's not really admitting to the theft. It's like a thief in the night when one does this to you. Even if the offender states her intentions were not to steal, it is more then obvious this was the intent. I would imagine if it happened to you or I, we too would be pretty steamed and find it difficult to let go. The replies on this post are not yet an outrageous amount....I'm sorry this happened to you Lisa...

Reply by kathy/ca on 7/5/06 11:01am
Msg #130852

Okay, maybe I am too easy going, sorry Lisa if I am being

too complacent and I hope you get this rectified in a way that is acceptable to you. Have a good day.

Reply by Nate_MN on 7/5/06 11:49am
Msg #130873

Re: And how would I know whether her site was up a week or

My vote is you are over reacting. I think it's good you sent her an email and asked her to stop, and I think it's good she did stop, and she apologized. As for how much damage this caused you, let me save you the money on attorney fees and say none. As for the relevance of you being a full time signing agent and a single mother, I guess I am not sure how that plays into how this makes what she did worse, or requires more apology.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 7/5/06 12:16pm
Msg #130881

Re:Nate- Lisa simply stated single mother and sole support

as a matter I fact, she meant nothing more. I do believe it places added stress and strain on a household when a mother is single and alone. I can tell you this I always had my hubby while we raised our kidlets, I was free of a great deal of stress due to his financial support and our co-parenting the children. I would not want to parent alone in this day and age.......A real challenge IMO

Reply by NCLisa on 7/5/06 1:34pm
Msg #130900

Re: And how would I know whether her site was up a week or

My entire livelihood depends on this business, and making enough money in a horrible market that I can at least make ends meet. Lots of that business comes from my website. Obviously the content was pretty darn good if someone liked it so much they wanted to steal it. Now if this person were in MN, or FL, or CA they would not have harmed me, just stolen my hard work. This person is right here in my own backyard. They took my hardwork, the tools I use to make my living, and STOLE it, to use for making money for themselves. They even took my little catchphrase that is in my ads and on the back of all my business cards "I go to YOU!", but their was We go to you. I've spent a couple years refining my information, the formatting, etc., so that I could support myself and my daughter. Not so someone else could make money off my hard work. If they wanted me to write content for their website, then they should have hired me to do so.


Take a good look at your website, how would you feel if you opened the NSA's site down the road from you, and saw all your work on their site? Even the formatting remained the same? Believe me, when that happens, you won't be so understanding or forgiving.

Reply by Jason on 7/5/06 4:32pm
Msg #130917

I agree with you absolutely, NCLisa.

I've spent 4 years building my website and paying for advertising.

I would show no mercy to someone who did what was done to you.

Reply by TCMN on 7/6/06 10:12am
Msg #131086

Kelly....I would like to say

that I recently tried that exact same resolution with Brenda/TX AND Shane/OH by emailing them and asking (very firmly) that a correction be made. I can say that the response to post on the message board was the childlike behavior that I would expect from the both of them.

You have to keep in mind that although you can do the right thing, as try to work it out between the parties...you have to first be dealing with mentally stable, morally ethical and professional individuals in the first place for a responsible outcome to be had. I did it the correct way (as you stated and I agree upon doing), yet as you can see by the response they both made, I had little chance of getting professionalism shown or the "right" thing done on their part. (now is that the leaders you want representing the notaries out there in an organization that is supposed to gain you some sort of respect and image of professionalism? "independant thinking will help you reveal true intensions" ...think about that people)