Posted by Mindy_WA on 7/15/06 4:44pm
Msg #133384

Need help with WA notary laws...

Ok, I am feeling pretty frustrated right now...

Last week I went to a RESPA signing for a new company, nothing to notarize. When sitting there with the borrowers, I notice that Mrs. borrower's "lights are on but no one is home". She was elderly and Mr. Borrowers states that she has trouble "remembering things". She doesn't know how many grandchildren she has and cannot remember from moment to moment why she is signing these papers. During the appointment, she repeatedly joked, "What if I refused to sign these?" Then she would laugh as though it was the first time she had said it. Classic dementia/alzheimers case.

Obviously, I would not be able to notarize anything for a person who is lacking mental capacity, but where in WA laws does it specifically talk about this.....it doesn't that I find. What am I missing?

Reply by PL on 7/15/06 7:07pm
Msg #133402

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=42.44.080

here you go

Reply by Mindy_WA on 7/15/06 10:10pm
Msg #133434

Re: Thanks PL!

I had found this section, as well. However, it does not REALLY say anything about the mental capacity of the signer. Mostly refers to the physical capacity. Nothing in the Handbook specifically says anything about mental capacity...which is very disturbing to me. Thanks though for the help!
Mindy

Reply by PAW on 7/16/06 5:41am
Msg #133458

Re: Thanks PL!

Remember that you are NOT there as a notary public, therefore, your notary statutes do not come into play. You are there only to gather information as an agent for the broker or lender for the purposes of opening an account (loan).

Therefore, in my non-lawyer opinion, if you feel that that the applicant is not capable of understanding the questions and disclosures, therefore not able to complete the application, then I would adjourn the signing and let the hiring agency know why you had to call it quits.

If you actually proceeded, and the process completed (including funding) and the applicant subsequently defaulted, claimed diminished mental capacity at the time of application, you, as the agent, may be named in a resulting law suit. Again, your notary bond and insurance will not assist or protect you as this is not a notarial act.

The preceding is a personal opinion of the author and is not to be construed as legal advice nor a legal opinion.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/16/06 9:11am
Msg #133467

Re: Thanks PL!

Paul said, **Remember that you are NOT there as a notary public, therefore, your notary statutes do not come into play.**

I am re-emphasizing this because it made me pause (what?) and then I realized that is absolutely correct because this is not a LOAN signing it is an appointment to go to the bwrs and get the information required for an application.

Reply by Mindy_WA on 7/16/06 11:59am
Msg #133478

Re: I never thought of it that way...

Thanks for the insight.

Reply by VickiWA on 7/15/06 7:18pm
Msg #133404

From 'The Washington Notary Law Primer' page 13 number 3

Feel certain the signer understands the transaction.

A conscientious and careful Notary will be certain not only of the signer's identity and willingness to sign, but also will make a layperson's judgement about the signer's ability to understand the document.

Screening for willingness - that is, making sure the signer signs the document of his or her own free will - is required if the notarial certificatestates that the signer's acknowledgement is "the free act and deed of the signer," or words to that effect.

The Revised Code of Washington specifies that a notary taking the acknowledgement of a physically challenged signer who cannot sign or make a mark and who directs the notary to sign on his or her behalf must determine that the signer is otherwise capable of entering into the transaction.

While Washington law does not expressly require the Notary to make a judgement about the signer's ability to understand the transaction in all other cases, it is in the Notary's best interest to do so. A document signer who is not able to respond intelligebly in a simple conversation with the Notary should no be considered able to sign at that moment.


If in doubt, the Notary can ask the signer if he or she understands the document and can explain its purpose. Or, if in a mendical environment, the signer's doctor can be consulted.


I hope this helps and sorry if there are typos but I am on the way out.

Vic

Reply by Mindy_WA on 7/15/06 10:00pm
Msg #133433

Re: Vicki

Vicki,
This does help, but why don't I have this information??? I even called the Department of Licensing Notary department, and they couldn't tell me where to find this information!!!

I have scoured the Notary handbook and couldn't find anything, except the paragraph that PL mentioned (which doesn't really say very much)!

So, from my Google search I find, this book you referred to was part of a package that the NNA sent you? I have never been a member of the NNA. Being a Notary in Washington is SO FRUSTRATING!!! Thankfully, I subscribe to the practice of asking "What would be ethical?".

Thanks a million for your help. I will see if I can get my hands on a copy of this book you speak of!

Reply by VickiWA on 7/15/06 10:57pm
Msg #133443

Re: Vicki

I did get the Washington Law Primer from the NNA. The book has been helpful. You can email me if you need info from it. Most of the information is basic. Where do you live in WA? My email is [e-mail address].

Reply by VickiWA on 7/15/06 11:02pm
Msg #133445

Mindy,

I just looked you up and you are in Spokane.

Reply by Mindy_WA on 7/15/06 11:08pm
Msg #133449

Re: Vicki..where are you in WA? n/m

Reply by VickiWA on 7/15/06 11:10pm
Msg #133450

Re: Vicki..where are you in WA?

I am in Covington/Kent area south of Seattle.

Reply by FlaMac on 7/16/06 10:52pm
Msg #133531

Look to WA notaries for the answer and ignore the rest..

some poster's in this forum think they are experts for every state..and they have an opinion for every occasion. Your fellow Washington notaries are your best source of accurate information.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/16/06 10:57pm
Msg #133534

And some posters ARE experts with valuable tips

Not like you and your venom. My word - you don't think you have to answer to anyone for what you say here? Shame on you.