Posted by MrEd_Ca on 7/28/06 5:35pm
Msg #135869

Re: Signings that Go Past Midnight ...

I had a signing on started at 10:30pm on July 26 & ended at 12:30am on July 27. On the documents that were signed after midnight I instructed the borrower to date them with the July 27 date & I dated the one remaining notarization as happening on July 27 as well.

The SS is now telling me that since the transaction was started on the 26th, all documents signed during that transaction, even if they happened after midnight, need to have the July 26 date & they want me to have the borrower resign & redate two documents: 1) the 'Good Faith Estimate of Settlement Charges' , & 2) 'Itemization of Amount Financed'. They are claiming that the loan won't fund if these two documents are not dated as July 26.

I don't mind going out to have the borrower resign but is the SS correct that ALL dates after midnight are to be the same as before midnight since the signing started them & can this oversight cause the loan to not fund??

Any insight is much appriciated!! (I did a search on this subject but came up w/nothing, although it sure rings a bell in tha back of my head. I just can't seem to find it.)

Reply by NotaryGirl71 on 7/28/06 5:38pm
Msg #135870

Re: Signings that Go Past Midnight ...

Lenders will not accept two dates on the documents. Since you technically started the signing on the 26th all dates should reflect this date.

WOW - You work pretty late!!!

Reply by Signing_Doc on 7/28/06 5:46pm
Msg #135872

Re: Signings that Go Past Midnight ...dittos

i had a signing start at about 2330 and it went past midnight...since I STARTED before midnight, I assured the borrower that the date before midnight would be the right date and we would not loose the lock. So..as long as you start BEFORE the mid of the night...you can use the same date AFTER the mid of the night..."Doc"

Reply by ck_KY on 7/28/06 5:47pm
Msg #135873

Re: Signings that Go Past Midnight ...

Same thing happened to me on the 26th, however I knew that as long as we started before midnight that we could use the 26th date. I didn't get home until 1:30 am that evening, but it was well worth it. I got double my fee, hope you got paid extra as well!

Reply by ck_KY on 7/28/06 5:48pm
Msg #135874

Forgot to add..

that is probably why you got called so late at night. So the loan would fund on the 31st.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/28/06 6:05pm
Msg #135876

Another Approach...

I have heard of this... 'started before Midnight so it's OK' approach but I've never been able to find it in the book. I called the SOS about it once and they treated me like I was smoking crack. The answer was 'NO, if it is after Midnight then the notarization should be dated for the next day.'

I do late ones all the time and I just frontload the notarizations, RTC, TIL and Item of AF to be done first. That way there are no questions and I feel all warm and fuzzy that no laws are being broken or even ssstrreeetched. There are no laws against having the borrower 'backdate' the other stuff as long as the key docs are completed.

That's just where I draw my line... others may draw theirs somewhere else. If anyone has a copy of the 'started before midnight' rule... I'd love to see it!

Reply by hcampersFL on 7/28/06 6:35pm
Msg #135883

I'm with you A.

If I start at 1130 (and I have) we will sign all docs that are date sensitive first. I don't mind going back to the docs after to point out any info the BR needs. If we are still signing after midnight I will notarize the next day's date.

Reply by Brad_CA on 7/28/06 6:39pm
Msg #135886

Re: I'm with you A.

The date you actually notarize the document is the date that must be on the acknowledgement or jurat. Otherwise, it would be considered backdating.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/28/06 6:40pm
Msg #135887

That's what we're sayin' Brad... :) n/m

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/28/06 9:58pm
Msg #135924

A, He does have a habit of stating the obvious

sort of annoying...as though you didn't know that in the first place??

Reply by JM_NY on 7/28/06 10:48pm
Msg #135931

I agree with Angelina I just pull the notarized forms and do

them first.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/28/06 8:30pm
Msg #135906

Re: Signings that Go Past Midnight ...

Mr. Ed, I could care less what date the borrower puts on the docs that I don't notarize. The GFE and the IAF to the TIL do not require notarization. I would have done all the notarized docs first, before 12m and followed with the other docs. The date that you started would be fine.

Go back out, have the brws re-sign and date and chalk it up to a learning experience.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/29/06 12:22pm
Msg #136012

Ditto..notarizations first, non-nots after... n/m

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 7/28/06 11:40pm
Msg #135938

Probably depends on your state, but if bwr signs ....

a doc that requires an ack. or jurat prior to midnight,
then , I believe. that you are
ok even if you place your stamp and sign after 12 while still
with the signer. .. As I see it , the
operative act is that you saw him sign berfore 12.
As to the key docs of RTC and TIL, if you give them his copies before
12, then he has received them on the proper date. If he signs the
"receipt " (the original TIL and RTC) after 12 you have still complied with the law.
And while we are at it, "exactly how many angels can dance on the head
of a pin?" If you and the bwr are both crazy enough to be
signing dox that late (yes I have done it a few times) then
just imagine you are both in Hawaii.
Yes , I believe in honesty and ethics, but the Notary Police
are not going to swoop down in black helicopters if you fudge
by 5 minutes.

Reply by christiSocal on 7/29/06 2:02am
Msg #135966

Re: Probably depends on your state, but if bwr signs ....

I make sure to pull notarized docs and the rtc to do first too, However I will admit to not looking at my watch untill we're done with that part!

Reply by SharonMN on 7/30/06 1:29pm
Msg #136112

Notarizing docs after midnight

Agree with others that the best thing to do when starting late is to pull all of the notarized docs out and make sure they get signed first, before you all turn into pumpkins at midnight.

I would definitely notarize with the CORRECT date the document was signed. Imagine a courtroom scene:

- Were there problems with your loan signing?
- Yes, Judge, I had to call my loan officer several times with questions. I didn't want to sign because the terms were wrong.
- Mr. Borrower, did you rely on the explanation Mr. Loan Officer gave you over the phone when deciding to sign that cabin loan that had no right to cancel?
- Yes, Judge. He said it would be OK so I signed.
- Mr. Loan Officer, at what time did Mr. Borrower call you?
- That was at 12:15 on the morning of the 1st, Judge. I remember because we'd just finished singing "Auld Lang Syne."
- So, Mr. Borrower, since you signed on the 31st, as the notary certificate indicates, how could you be relying on information from a phone call you didn't make until the 1st?

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 7/29/06 8:52am
Msg #135980

Re: Probably depends on your state, but if bwr signs ....

....not crazy but, maybe lacking in intelligence, at that time of night? Certainly made punch drunk by the shear volume & repetitious docs (5 1003's in loan #2 alone). I thought I had pulled & signed all the docs needing notarizations but found one after midnight & then the date needed on the remaining docs just sort of fell out of my head.

And yes, at that time black helicopters were a concern. But thanks, to you & all others, for putting it in perspective. (Now, how do I add the Happy Face w/wink and embarrassed blush??)

Reply by christiSocal on 7/29/06 3:25pm
Msg #136037

Click on rules and guidelines, just above and to the right

scroll down and you'll see all those happy bright little faces...:p