Posted by AngelinaAZ on 7/31/06 9:33am
Msg #136243

"Gold Rush" dilemma VS. Notary Classes

I saw a post earlier on the board about the California Gold Rush and it's similarity in the last three years to the NSA field. I totally agree with the poster but my issue is that I feel there is dishonesty at the heart of this that speaks to the integrity of the profession.

Here is the disturbing part to me...

I was in Southern CA recently and I was 'fortunate' enough to hear pointed advertising for the Notary Classes (again). Why do they keep advertising as if being an SA is STILL the hottest new thing since fallout shelters? I am not against advertising a product or a class... the economy is cyclical so I must believe that this industry WILL pick up some... but... the notary field is BASED ON ETHICS right? I mean, our very position is SUPPOSED to mean that we are HONEST. If the people doing the training are BLATANTLY DISHONEST about the opportunities in this field right now... what does that say about our industry?

Not to mention the lack of basic knowledge the poor people from these classes are displaying right out of the gates. I have nothing against the students... in fact I respect someone who is willing to take time and pay money so that they get the 'right' education. It's too bad that they don't come out more equipped. After reading the Gold Rush analogy I feel like I am watching a new cherry faced band of newbies with their pans clanking and maps rustlin' headin' on out to the river... breakin' their backs enthusiastically for little flecks of sparkling sand, luring them just enough to think that the Great Nugget is out there somewhere. Meanwhile the man in the store wears a gold watch and watches the last batch of weary newcomers to the Nugget River that has long since stopped dishing nuggets, lose money and hope and wander back to where they came from. He watches them go... and puts up a new sign saying 'Make your fortune panning for Gold in the Nugget River... Pans and Supplies and Maps here!'

So in case my message is subtle... to those that advertise for the Notary Classes or the NNA... would you please remember the integrity that this position is SUPPOSED to have and quit selling 'Ocean Front Property in Arizona'. Thanks a bunch!

Reply by Carmen R Towles on 7/31/06 9:39am
Msg #136245

Well said!

C

Reply by Pamela on 7/31/06 9:58am
Msg #136248

Anglina, Re: "Gold Rush" dilemma VS. Notary Classes

Angelina,

According to the NNA's website, there are 58 NNA notaries within one mile of me!

Pam

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/31/06 10:06am
Msg #136250

Re: Anglina, Re: "Gold Rush" dilemma VS. Notary Classes

Pamela - thanks for bringing that to the forum and keeping this situation real.

Reply by patricia on 7/31/06 10:43am
Msg #136255

ethics and honesty

I also think that some of the newer notaries give us a black-eye by lying about their experience in order to get jobs, I have been told this is quite prevelent. People who do this certainly cant be called "honest".

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 7/31/06 10:56am
Msg #136259

Re: ethics and honesty-Yes, this is a very interesting

Comment.......we have several that certainly appear less then honest, not to mention the performance of some of the ss, those that perhaps teach, etc., etc., etc., that frequent the board and again this is not directed at every ss or any one person, there are some very good, honest ss and many a notary out there. But yes a huge question mark regarding integrity.....

Reply by Pamela on 7/31/06 11:01am
Msg #136262

Re: Anglina, Re: "Gold Rush" dilemma VS. Notary Classes

Good Morning Brenda,

You are welcome. Hope that all is well with your nephew.

I've been told by many a signing service, that if I did not accept
$50.00 or $65.00 for e-docs, that there were hundreds of other
notaries, in my area who would. Probably so, due to the competition.

In Southern California, there are many, many real estate agents
(including myself), brokers, escrow officers, title reps., loan officers etc. . .
who are in direct or indirect competition with each other.
Yet, their fees are not "lowballed".

Meaning that, when it comes to closing a loan, there are a "team" of
players required to complete the loan package, to include the signing
agent/notary. Being so, why is everyone else on the "team" paid
considerably more?

Some may argue the point, that real estate agents
etc. . .work harder and have more paperwork and education
(for which I beg to differ on all three), nevertheless, unless the documents
are properly notarized and signed, (for recording) the loan cannot fund.

"Equal pay for Equal Worth" is an old 1970's adage. Yet it's true. I've
recently had a loan package for which the loan officer did not know
diddly-squat! Yet, there are experienced notaries/signing
agents, who are on top of everything and know both the loan signing
and mortgage business inside out!

Now, everyone else on the "team" receives a percentage
of the loan's value. That is, everyone but the notary/signing agent.
For instance, I am quite sure, that a loan officer does not receive
$150.00 for a loan package!

Sure, the HUD may stipulate $200.00 notary fees. Yet, that is still
small in comparison to receiving a percentage of any loan.

Wherefore, as notaries/signing agent's we have a commodity.
That is our notarial duties, knowledge and seal. It is worth
a lot more than $50.00 (or $200.00)!


Pam

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/31/06 11:03am
Msg #136264

Re: Well said, Pamela! n/m

Reply by Carmen R Towles on 7/31/06 11:38am
Msg #136268

Re: Anglina, Re: "Gold Rush" dilemma VS. Notary Classes

Thanks you Pam! I was just having this same conversation with another notary over the weekend. Maybe one day we will get paid what we are worth. The services we provide enable a whole lot of folks to become very rich. Although I am paid decent for most of my signings (150 and up). I have one loan officer in particular who pays me 300-350 per closing. One day I asked him out of curiousity "why so much"?. He confessed to me that he makes an insane amount of money, that it was the only Christian thing to do and that he could not do this without me and my services. (he knows he can call at any time and I will be there at the drop of a dime). He is a notary himself but feels that it is better to have a third party do the notarizations. He has integrity. I told him if he wasn't already married , I would marry him!!

C

Reply by Pamela on 8/1/06 1:40am
Msg #136431

Carmen! Re: "Gold Rush" dilemma VS. Notary Classes

Carmen You are Welcome!

I just started doing signings this year (I am also a licensed real estate agent
but am not currently active. However, I will be taking classes this fall toward
the brokers license, as next year I will venture into the mortgage industry. . .)

It's just truly amazes me how under-valued the notary/signing agent's role
is, when in my opinion, it's extremely important. Afterall, nothing gets recorded
without the proper signings of loan documents and the notary's seal. Yet,
I receive calls from signing companies, offering $50.00 to $65.00 for e-docs!
These people then tell me, that if I do not accept the assignment, there are
many more notaries who will.

Unfortunately, because notaries/signing agents are not politically organized,
there is no uniformity. Some receive $50.00, others $125.00, still others $300.00.
For example, as a real estate agent, it goes without saying, that 5 to 6 percent
commission is the norm (in California), for a listing. I've also been told by those
in the mortgage industry that $1,500, $8,000 etc. . . can be made on one loan
(depending upon the loan type, amount, points etc. . .).

I know several mortgage brokers /real estate brokers/signing agents who also
do their own notarizations. In fact, they wear "three hats". Everything stays
"in house". And yes, they do make $$$$.

The description of your loan officer's actions, shows that he has good moral
character. That is lacking in much of today's world, especially in the real estate/
mortgage industry.

Believe it or not, a mortgage banker asked me to marry him earlier this year!
This man is a "money machine"! He is a hard money (sub-prime) lender and
his only focus is on making more money! To say that he is very callous,
would be an understatement. He thought that he and I would make a fine
team. However, I beg to differ!

At the end of the day, we all have to answer to God (I am a Christian too)!
And yes, I want to make money in this business, but not by using others.


Take Care!

Pam

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/31/06 3:28pm
Msg #136308

Uh oh

Now we can just sit back and wait for the message from Joan Bergstrom telling you that this number is meaningless since you're not linked to your profile and dont' tell us what zip code you're in so we have no way of verifying it (in other words, calling you a liar).

Then she'll remind us that CA has the lowest per capita ratio of notaries to population in the state, so we can't possibly be saturated and that all it takes to be successful is proper marketing techniques. And she'll conveniently ignore any followup questions you might have about the actual need for all these notaries (over 225,000 in the state I believe) or about basic business principles like supply and demand being more meaningful than marketing.

Then we can all roll our eyes and remember that she has a financial interest in making sure CA is saturated with notaries and take her comments for the highly biased and inaccurate and misleading words they really are.

Reply by JO_PA on 7/31/06 10:51am
Msg #136258

I posted several days ago about talking to NNA (they keep sending me bills for E&oO and membership).
While I had them on the phone, I told them what I thought about their advertising and false promises of riches. I told them it was doing nothing but filling the market with undereducated and unprepared notaries with stars in their eyes and that it was driving experienced, well-qualified notaries to leave this business.
Botton line, the NNA doesn't seem to care. They had NO answer for what I said. I guess as long as they can make a buck off unsuspecting people, there is no reason for them to care.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/31/06 10:59am
Msg #136261

Re: "Gold Rush" dilemma VS. Notary Classes - FTC.GOV

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1995/07/scam.htm

The following appears at the above link. I have snipped out the part most interesting to me...

From the Federal Trade Commission -

Investigations show that business opportunity scams are most often promoted at trade shows and through small ads that appear n the classified sections of newspapers and magazines. Once touted almost strictly on a face-to-face basis, business opportunities are increasingly being promoted through slick telemarketing. Most of the schemes:

Use classified ads that urge the prospect to call an "800" number.
Make wild and unsubstantiated claims about potential earnings. Include claims about "proven" concepts.
Suggest that no experience is necessary.
Promise exclusive territories.
Rely on high-pressure telemarketing sales techniques to pressure a victim into turning over his or her money.
Make assurances about good locations for vending machines or display racks, or the assistance of a professional locator.
Hype references handpicked by the company (instead of providing a list of all current business opportunity owners in the region).
Fail to provide prospective investors with a complete disclosure document containing pre-sale disclosures about their experience, lawsuit history, audited financial statements, and substantiation for any representations made about earnings.

STEPS YOU CAN TAKE TO PROTECT YOURSELF
The Federal Trade Commission and the North American Securities Administrators Association are now making available a free brochure, "Business Opportunity Fraud" in conjunction with the massive state-federal assault on business opportunity scams. Key advice contained in the brochure includes:

Be skeptical about earnings claims that sound too good to be true. The "bait" on the "hook" of a business opportunity scam is that a person with no experience may be able to work only a few hours a week and earn $50,000, $100,000 . . . or more . . . a year. The truth is that making money almost always requires hard work . . . and lots of it.

Exercise caution when it comes to newspaper and magazine ads that contain little more than glowing promises and an "800" number. This is very likely a "come-on" pitch to lure you into calling a high-pressure telemarketing boiler room operation! Keep in mind that just because an ad appears in a reputable newspaper or magazine does not mean that the information it contains is accurate or legitimate.

Obtain and review the required disclosure document before money changes hands. Keep in mind that business opportunity and franchise promoters are required to present you with a disclosure document before you sign a contract or pay a fee. If this document is not made readily available, beware!

Make sure that the business opportunity has complied with applicable state registration laws. Even if a business opportunity promoter complies with the laws in your state governing such deals, there is no guarantee that you will make money. However, it is one easy way to screen out bogus operators who are trying to "fly below radar" in order to evade detection by regulators.

Talk to current investors . . and watch out for "singers." You should always take the time to speak with several people who are current investors in the business opportunity that you are considering. The disclosure document must contain a list of the business opportunity's current operators. But be on your guard! A scheming promoter of a bogus business opportunity may line up "singers" who provide phony testimonials. You should visit their business sites, as well.

Research the business and the market. Make sure that you have a clear grasp of how the business opportunity will work and what demand (if any) there is likely to be in your territory. Don't rely only on glowing promises from telemarketers who claim that consumers are clamoring to get your product. In one case where a business opportunity claimed to have a "worst case" net return of $1,220 a month, investigators found that the investor who was doing the best only made about $200-$300 monthly.

Get professional advice if you need it. Don't lose your life savings just because you failed to spend a few hundred dollars to talk to a lawyer, an accountant or other expert. These people will sometimes be able to spot key details that you are missing. Since they are not caught up in your dream and hope for success, outsiders are also in a better position to review a business opportunity from a neutral vantage point.

To file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, write to: Division of Marketing Practices, Federal Trade Commission, Washington, D.C. 20580. Or call: 202/326-2222. Free information on business opportunities and franchising is available from the International Franchise Association, 1350 New York Avenue, N.W., Suite 900, Washington, D.C. 20005. The FTC also has other publications available to the public on business opportunities and franchises.

For the complete set of tips and more detailed information about the findings of "Project Telesweep," consumers can write for a free copy of the FTC/NASAA Consumer Bulletin entitled "Business Opportunity Fraud."

Write to:
Business Opportunities
NASAA
1 Massachusetts Avenue, Suite 310
Washington DC 20001

This news release and the Consumer Bulletin are also available on the World-Wide Web (WWW) of the Internet. The uniform resource locator (URL) for the FTC's home page is: http://www.ftc.gov

Reply by Brenda Stone on 7/31/06 11:01am
Msg #136263

Re: "Gold Rush" dilemma - interesting article at ftc.gov

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2002/09/internationaltrader.htm

This one is on the Medical Billing Opportunity.

Reply by JO_PA on 7/31/06 11:11am
Msg #136265

Re: Interesting Brenda, looks like I have some reading to do

Thanks! The info you gave inspires me to look further.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 7/31/06 11:45am
Msg #136269

These companies are in it for the money. They do not give a dam if they lure people in with false advertising. I do not think it will end any time soon. Notaries will soon we like Hamburger Stands, you can find one on every corner.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 7/31/06 11:47am
Msg #136270

Re: should be "soon be" n/m