Posted by asigner on 7/19/06 4:29pm
Msg #134139

spouse signs (PLEASE add knowledge to this) NEWBIES READ

The spousal states (if you are not familiar with this) are states which follow some sort of community property law. For these states, the law generally requires a 50/50 split in assets, I would think! Those states require that both spouses be present when signing. This means that when a lender sends documents to a notary that HAS THE HUSBAND LISTED ON THE FIRST OR SECOND PAGE OF THE MORTGAGE AS A SINGLE MAN, the package does not contain a marital status affidavit, and THE WIFE IS LOOKING AT YOU IN AN ODD WAY AND MAKING STRANGE COMMENTS it is time for you to get up and run (by the way TAKE THE DOCS WITH YOU) ----ok-go ahead and make a call to the signing company or whomever if it makes you feel better----- BUT DON’T BE SURPRISED IF YOU FINISH THIS LONG DRAMA with everyone telling you, “IT’S OK JUST GO AHEAD AND SIGN THE DOCS AND WE’LL STRAIGHTEN IT OUT LATER BY LETTING THE WIFE SIGN SOME DOCS LATER” you say “NO THE DOCS NEED TO BE REDRAWN WITH THE WIFES NAME PRINTED ON THE DOCS PROPERLY”-----If you are in a (spousal/community property) state, please always check the drivers license and ask the marital status of the borrower. Don’t let folks push you around- they gain a commission and you’ll gain a lawsuit or 2 when SPOUSE#1 leaves SPOUSE#2 for a new love. IN CERTAIN STATES there AIN’T (love that word) NO dollar limit on recovery of damages caused by a notary.

Ex; man & woman buy a house prior to marriage, then get married, then 10 years into the marriage the man wants to refinance the home. He say ”uh – she’s not going to be involved in this” You say Is there a PRENUP- He says NO. He says “I have documents showing that she signed all her rights away pertaining to the home” so notary gets there asks for the document, he produces an ACT OF DONATION which was prepared and completed prior to their marriage, showing the (girlfriend at the time) donating her half of ownership back to husband, while true this doesn’t change the fact that they are now married and any asset or debt built within the union is 50/50. And unless they can produce a doc specifically stating that his is his and hers is hers from this day forward----- NO WAY – spouse signs…

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/19/06 4:38pm
Msg #134142

Florida is a homestead state.
However if I get docs and the spouse is not listed to sign any of them, I will call the title company to ask if they require the spouse to sign any of the docs and if so which. (some only want the RTC and TIL signing, others want more).
However if I cannot get a hold of the title company, then I have the docs signed as printed.
According to the UPL counsel to the FL bar, it would be UPL for me to advise a spouse to sign a document, I am not an attorney and cannot give legal advice and it would be giving legal advice.
It is not a notary error if the spouse should have signed.

Now, LA being a civil law notary state may view it differently. LA is unique in its laws

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/19/06 11:18pm
Msg #134193

"Please add knowledge" Not here, Newbies please "Don't" read

This one takes the cake.

***The spousal states (if you are not familiar with this) are states which follow some sort of community property law***

Your job, as notary is to first identify your signers, then to play the role as SA, without making assumptions as to the need of docs being re-drawn, or the purpose of marketability of title, OR whether or not a pre-nup is in effect!

The presumption here blows my mind. You would think this notary has the burden of the effect of the marriage and community property rights. As long a title insurance company will insure it as such, the "opinions" of this SA are ridiculous, completely ridiculous.

Your opinion, asigner, is worthless. I suggest you consult with the tc that employed you, and hopefully you can redeem the signing.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/20/06 1:27am
Msg #134210

I agree...

"Your opinion, asigner, is worthless... " and potentially incorrect, I might add. I don't claim to be an expert in this area, but I've come across a number of situations (I'm talking CA here...) where property was acquired before marriage, but spouse has signed an Interspousal Transfer Deed. In these cases, it's acceptable for one spouse to sign alone, if the lender is OK with that. (Some want both signatures on certain docs regardless.) As Sylvia so aptly put it, it's not for us to make that determination. We should ask the title co and follow directions. This is an area that generates lots of confusion because people are often misinformed or not fully informed, but definitely not up to us to be dictating who signs what. Certainly not in my community property state, at least!

Reply by asigner on 7/20/06 8:30am
Msg #134226

Re: Genuine California Response - Thanks

California would have gotten a phone call this am but her #'s and email are all hidden. And at first glance you appear so professional! wow! Is California a spousal state? Is it true, in California, notaries take a 6 hour training course and then take a 30 minute mutiple choice test? wow that sounds really easy. In Louisiana we don't have it so easy and we dont carry around lil hand books either. If you feel it is your job to sign those docs no matter what a loan officer or title company tells you, by all means, do so. However, I will choose, based on the knowledge I have, what business I will conduct and what I will not. LOUISIANA notaries be careful of what you listen to on this board and most of all check with an attorney in YOUR OWN STATE before doing something you're not sure of, and do not come to this board thinking they are an authority on all things. Thanks ------this post had nothing to do with "giving legal advice about who was going to sign! THIS POST IS ABOUT figuring out whether or not the NOTARY is going to add a notarization to a set of docs that you know to be false. ie, date being wrong, names being wrong, etc.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 7/20/06 9:42am
Msg #134240

I live in a spousal state and

I've had signings where there was a prenup...the lender would not accept it and I was instructed to get spousal docs signed. It is up to the lender to make that determination, not the SA. All I can do as a representative of the lender is notify them of the marital status and follow their instructions. To decide which docs to sign IS UPL in my state and I cannot do that, I can only follow instructions. IF they are incorrect, so be it, we'll resign but by getting Title involved I have done my job. IF your state allows you to make that determination (which docs to sign) then you're most likely working for too little money.

Reply by janCA on 7/20/06 10:17am
Msg #134244

Asigner

I take offense to your post. Your sarcasm as to what kind of an education is required to become a notary and an SA in CA is uncalled for and unless you actually know what the requirements are, I would immediately take my foot out of my mouth. I don't care what state you are from, in order to become a good and qualified notary public and an SA, is up to the individual to continue that education beyond the exams required by the state. Clearly your first post is indicating that you seem to think you have the right to determine and interpret spousal laws of your state. Your job is that of notary public and SA. No more, no less. And you would actually call the TC and tell them to redraw the docs? Wow, do you really think you have that kind of authority over your hiring entity? Who's paying whom here?