Posted by Dee_Fla on 7/7/06 8:01pm
Msg #131600

what would you do??

I had a closing today...first when i went to call the borrower, she went pyschotic on me cuz I advised her that she needed to have copies of her id in order for the title company to disburse the funds. Then she told me to call her back in 30 mins when she calmed down. I tried but no answer..so i called the SS back and talked with them. Between the SS, TC and LO no one could reach her, before I knew it the TC told me to go do the closing. So i printed the docs up. I knew I was running alittle late due the situation and they wanted me there b4 7pm. Impossible. but i did try to call the borrower to let her know i may be a little late. No answer.

I get there a few minutes after 7pm. The grandson pulls up in a gold cart. He was a very friendly and mature 12 yr old. when he opened the door, the house was full of smoke. Food on the stove was burning. He went in to get her and came running out, he told me this closing was not going to happen...she had fallen and asked me to go in and help her up. When i got into the family room, she laying on the ground , totally out of it. He tried to lift her up but impossible. so he justleft her..the smoke was so bad, i had to leave the house, it was triggering my asthma. he told me she was drunk...and little later we found out she had also OD on the meds with the vodka. but she was responding...she kept mumbling about something. I couldnt stay in the house. I called the SS and told them about it. She said she would call the LO and TC. the grandson came out and we talked, he went back in and came out with two bottles of vodka that she had been drinking. he pleaded with me not to call the police or social services. Come to find out .... well...anyhow...he told me he didnt know if he had insurance and had been having chest pains,etc..and he said that she leaves him home for hours and he has no idea where she is.

I left him my numbers incase he needs anything. They are suppose to go to the airport to p/u his bio mom and then to disney. but I told him to dump the liquor and hide the keys and if needed i would take him to the airport to go pick her up. He was so sweet he stayed with me until i can breath ok...he went as far as picking flowers for me.

anyhow...I was given the suggestion of calling the NNAhotline and see what they say and then maybe call 911 to have this grandmother/child checked on. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing but yet I know I am and I should had when I was there.

what would you had done or what would you suggest?

Reply by Anonymous on 7/7/06 8:05pm
Msg #131601

I would have called the authorites, especially since his bio mom was flying in. Poor kid. Was he left alone with that mess after you left?

Reply by Joan_OH on 7/7/06 8:31pm
Msg #131605

I agree!

I would have called the authorities. At the very least, call the fire department and let THEM call the authorities. You never know if this woman can pull the "cook and drink herself into a stuper" stunt in the middle of the night while the sleeping 12 year old dies of smoke inhalation (sp?)

Joan-OH

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/7/06 8:33pm
Msg #131606

Dee, I would immediately call DCF.
Maybe it's just me, (former nurse & butt-insky)but I think we have a responsibilty
not ONLY as notaries, but as human beings to protect kids, even if it's from their
own families.
There is often abuse accompanying the neglect.
I was the child of an addict/alcoholic, and often wished SOMEONE
would take an interest and protect me and my siblngs.
But, that aside, we live in a society filled with depressed, drug addicted and drunken
parents/guardians.
IMHO, I would make the call to protect the child.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/7/06 8:37pm
Msg #131607

Agree with Joan-

I don't know how many times my Mom passed out while smoking and ALMOST
burned our home while us kids slept....Very dangerous for that kid.
No wonder he's "mature". He's raising wayward adults.

Reply by Pamela on 7/7/06 8:46pm
Msg #131610

Dee, Re: what would you do??

Dee,

First of all, as a notary/signing agent, I would have telephoned 911.
While awaiting the rescue services, I would have telephoned the signing agency to report what happened. When the police etc. . .arrived, I would have informed them what the child had stated. I would leave them (police, child protection services) my information as a witness.
No more no less. Later on, you could have contacted any or all of the "authorities" for
follow-up.

Dee, you MUST NEVER instruct someone (especially a minor) to "dump the liquor and hide the keys". You are there as a possible "witness" to a crime, not involved active participant! You are instructing a 12 year old to destroy evidence!

Also, with what authority do you have to take that child in your auto without the permission of his guardian? My goodness, you are opening yourself up to a possible lawsuit?

What would have happened if you had taken the grandson to the airport, and you became involved in an accident? What if the child (for whatever reason), changed his story and stated that you had taken him away, against his will? Remember, you are a stranger to that child!

I have worked in the social work field for 17 years. As a social/case worker, we are mandated to report all cases of suspected child abuse (both on and off the job). We are NEVER to disturb evidence, or to escort a possible victim from one place to another, without prior approval!

The NNA is for notarial and loan signing questions. Why (on earth) would you call them in lieu of 911?

Sorry to be so harsh!

Pam

Reply by Dee_Fla on 7/7/06 9:06pm
Msg #131613

Re: Dee, Re: what would you do??

Thank you for your suggestions. I did call the Sherrffs office and talked to an officier who was aware of this family and their issues already and he said he would go over there to check on both. I told him everything I told you here and he never said anything negative to me.

I wasnt trying to have him "destroy" evidence in anyway...I was tying to discourage her getting into the car tommarrow drunk. that was on my mind...not as "evidence" although I do see your point of view on this as well. I was reminding him to take away the keys when someone is drunk, as they learn in the DARE program. That is what was on my mind.

I do understand what yu mean about taking him to the airport, however, if he had put his grandmother in the hospital and was staying with me as suggested, I would had helped him to pick up his mother and let them go back to the grandmother's house. That is what I was thinking..but again, I do understand what you are saying too Pam. It does make sense.

I felt a little guilty for not calling 911 sooner...I ponded on this and when the LO was more concern of the loan closing then the welfare of the child, even after I told them i was about ready to call CPT. I know they want that loan to go through, but I'm sorry, I was more worry about Joey. I needed advise from others before making a move that may cause damage in some way of form. But I did call and talk to a deputy. Apparently he had been there last week for almost the samething and the boy told him something a little different. I reminded the officier cuz he is a male authority, the boy was probably more afraid then telling a stranger.

I'm leaving it now in their hands what to do. I just told him I would be happy to help out in anyway. They know where I am or how to contact me. I would just not taken him without permission. I just don't want him to be driving with a drunken grandmother.

I know I promised him I would not call DCF, which I didnt, but I did call the sheriff and I'm sure they will know what to do from there to protect that child. I just feel bad for waiting but at least I can sleep better tonight, hoping the boy will be in a safe place and hopefully his grandmother will be hospitalize.

Thank you for your suggestions and support on this ...and thank you Pam for your 'harsh constructive critism". I do see your point of view, but at the moment I was not thinking of that in that way. The boy has my number if he ever wants to call ...I told him he can come and play with my son on the puter, etc... I just hope he won't be terribly mad at me for calling the sheriff's office....oh well, he will have to get over it. He does not need to be taken care of her, that is her job but she has failed it. Just my thought.


Again thank you.

Reply by Pamela on 7/7/06 10:07pm
Msg #131621

Dee!

Dee,

Thanks for being so understanding!

What really angers me, is that there are many so-called trained
professionals (i.e. police officers, social/case workers, doctors etc. . .),
who do not want to do the additional paper work, to help abused
and/or neglected children.

The officer who talked to you is "aware" of the situation but has done nothing!
Someone from child protective services should be interviewing this child.
His superior should immediately be informed! And YOU can also follow-up with
children services, to ensure that the child receives the help he needs. Afterall,
if this same officer knows this family's history and has taken no action
to further the case, it will remain "as is".

But remember, once invloved, you will have to continue. And, you may have to press
even farther with children services! Case loads are very high, and
everyone isn't meant to be a "social worker" (even though this may be their
job title). This "intervention" may employ a lot of your time and energy. So be
VERY certain that this is what you want to do.

Additionally, don't invite someone into your home, especially to play with your
children, until you know their complete background!

You stated that this 12 year old ". . . told him (the police officer) something a little different. . ." You are surmising that it is because the officer ". . .is a male authority."
DO NOT GUESS at this!

AND, no matter how "mature" this 12 year old is, he is still a minor! AND, ALL minors
need someone to care for them! What about food, clothing, shelter etc. . .

Take Care!

Pam

Reply by Dee_Fla on 7/7/06 10:12pm
Msg #131623

Re: Dee!

Pam...the deputy called me back and told me that there is an aunt in town and he is getting DCF involved. He was calling the aunt after done talking to me. Its good to know there is other family in town (but the boy didnt tell me that) and they will see how things are once the bio mom is in town tommarrow. They are also trying to get help for the grandmother as well.

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/7/06 10:21pm
Msg #131626

Re: Dee!

"Its good to know there is other family in town (but the boy didnt tell me that)"

Which is exactly why you get the authorities involved in these types of situations. Whatever you're hearing isn't necessarily the complete story or even the truth. Let the professionals sort it out, all we can and should do is bring it to their attention.

Reply by Pamela on 7/7/06 10:31pm
Msg #131632

Dee! Cont'd

Dee!

You are Very Nice but a little bit "innocent" in certain areas!

This "mature 12 year old", failed to inform you about the aunt.
Thus far, he has withheld information from both you and the police officer!
Of course, he may have valid reasons . . .

Nevertheless, you do not want to become overly involved in
situations like this.

PLEASE LEARN from this experience!

lol,

Pam

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/7/06 11:05pm
Msg #131654

Dee, I'm really sorry...

but your posts are soooo hard to read. Please type them in a WP program before posting so that more people might understand what you are saying or trying to say.

I feel like I'm reading encrypted messages sometimes...UGH!

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/7/06 9:12pm
Msg #131615

I honestly don't know what I'd do, but

Dee responded to the situation as any ordinary person might. Maybe her choices are not what a trained professional social services person or police officer would/should do... but she's a notary & did what she thought best under the circumstances. A mature 12 isn't a toddler! I'm sure she'll be thinking about this and, after reading everyone's replies, will be second-guessing what she did do under pressure. But, we're sitting at computers with lots of time to 'think' and not just react to a disaster in progress. I'll tell you one thing: I'm making a plan for goofy circumstances right now... sorta like 'what to do in case of an accident' card that your insurance company gives you to put in your wallet. And it won't include calling DC--whatever-- when a mature 12 year old is begging me not to. I'd let other more qualified people make that call!

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/7/06 10:01pm
Msg #131620

Re: I honestly don't know what I'd do, but

"And it won't include calling DC--whatever-- when a mature 12 year old is begging me not to."

A 12 year old doesn't have the ability to make this judgement call. I don't care how mature he is, it is simply NOT in his best interest to be with a woman like that.

Reply by Pamela on 7/7/06 10:16pm
Msg #131624

Lee! Re: I honestly don't know what I'd do, but

Lee,

No matter how "mature" this 12 year old is, he is still a minor.
My goodness!

So, if a "mature' 12 year old, asked you to buy a quart of gin,
would you? And how "mature" is "mature"?

As adults, we are the ones who are supposed to set the example
and lead (not the other way around)!

You do not need professional training to know this!

Pam

Reply by Rebecca Fair on 7/7/06 9:13pm
Msg #131616

Dee, again

I can't read your post. Forgive me but, years of reading docs has killed my eyes and the way you type is SO hard on the eyes, I just can't continue. I'd like to help you, but I just can't read your post.

Once again "cuz" is not a word.

:X

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/7/06 10:19pm
Msg #131625

Re: Dee, again

It really is. Cuz? b4? If we were text messaging each other that would be one thing, but good lord woman, type like an adult.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/7/06 10:49pm
Msg #131643

TY, my thoughts 2 n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/7/06 10:48pm
Msg #131642

Okay Dee. I think I got the jest of it...

so many pronouns, but I get your meaning.

If I were a 12 yr old placed with (or threatened with) DCF, I too would be very scared. As you probably now, DCF does not have a great reputation here in Florida. Knowing what I know about Florida DCF, the kid just might be better off. I don't mean this as a joke, really. DCF has lost more kids in the system then I care to count. It's really sad, I know, but it is true. DCF is still trying to locate a little 3 year old that was in their care and has been missing from Palm Beach County for over 2 years. I'm not convinced that the DCF system works.

Anyway, back to the situation. So the kid's Mothers is coming to town to give him a happy time at the evil empire? I don't buy it. If she won't or can't take responsibility, she is a loser. If she left the kid for the summer with her irresponsible parents, she's still a loser, but maybe all that he has.

The kid needs someone, other then DCF to intervene. He needs a foster family in place before appearing in the family courts. This may be his only chance to stay out of the DCF lost children hole. He needs help NOW and not DCF. Call 211, call foster services, but be careful of DCF.


I hope he has family that can help. My heart goes out to the boy and also to you Dee. No child should have to deal with this kind of $hit; It's just not right.

I know, I'm not your favorite, but if you should need help, don't hesitate to call.

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/8/06 12:04am
Msg #131696

Becca made 'the no DCF' point much better than I did. n/m

Reply by maria ramirez on 7/7/06 10:54pm
Msg #131647

Wow, What an experience you had.. I think I would of done the same thing.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/7/06 11:06pm
Msg #131655

Dee, no one here can prepare you for second thoughts.

A mess is a mess. And you can only do what is in your ability to do. Sorry you had such a difficult situation. Take all the advice with a grain of salt, "they" weren't there.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/8/06 12:11pm
Msg #131772

As a duly appointed state official I would have immediately called the authorities, and left it in their hands - I would have stayed with the child until the authorities arrived.