Posted by LynnNC on 6/9/06 7:24am
Msg #124901

AKA

Last night I had a signing where the borrower's middle name, "Janet", was on the documents and her former married name, "Smith" was used as her middle name on her driver's license. We met at a McDonald's where she did not have her passport, which has her middle middle name, former married name and current married name, which would link her name on the documents. She did have her employee ID which had her middle initial, "J", and I felt comfortable that her middle name was Janet.

I had her sign the documents "Cindy Janet Jones AKA Cindy S. Jones" since I could notarize only the name on her ID. She is going to fax a copy of her passport, which shows her name as Cindy Janet Smith Jones, to me today, before I send the documents, so that I can note it on the ID Aff and in my journal.

My question is, is a Name Affidavit sufficient when an AKA is used in signing the documents, or is a document that specifally says AKA necessary?

Reply by CopperheadVA on 6/9/06 8:05am
Msg #124908

I have run into similar situations as this, such as when a borrower gets married, and has the married name on the docs but the maiden name on the ID. However, I would have had the borrower sign as "Cindy Smith Jones AKA Cindy Janet Jones", with only the Cindy Smith Jones name appearing in my notarial statment (since that was the name on the ID). I don't accept work ID's, unless they are issued by the US government, which many in my area are issued by the Dept. of Defense.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/9/06 8:22am
Msg #124911

Re: AKA - Hard spot

Lynn,

People are going to get really testy about this post, but I think you question is a valid one for a new person. I don't have your answer. My ID rules in Texas are a little different than Florida and California, and in NC.

I am a notary and I identify the person to my satisfaction.

The title company decides what name goes on the docs. If I don't think I have the right person before me, or if there is a problem with ID *to my satisfaction*, then I cannot notarize them. I don't change the way the person signs without permission from above.

I either complete the signing, or I don't. 99.9% of the time, I am going to complete the signing and have them sign as printed on the documents if I am certain that this is the right person. I note it in my journal and write a letter to the TC regarding the difference in the way it was stated.

However, people from CA and FL are not going to operate like that. They are going to insist on everything matching.

IMHO, the name affidavit means little to my notary records. Neither does a faxed copy of the passport post-face to face with the signer.

I'd have to be in your shoes before I could make a judgment call on this one. Also, IMHO, you should not have changed the names signed, but at least it shows you are thinking. I would have abandoned this signing because the ID is not there to support the name in the documents to my notarial satisfaction. IMHO - This is a no can do, and I am not a nit-picker when I am "satisfied" I have the right person in front of me.

(And, remember folks, it was at night and she had no one to call. If she had called me, I would have asked, "what do your notary rules say about ID?" NC might be different than TX or FL or CA. If you cannot do it, you cannot do it.)

Lynn, just make sure you know your NC ID rules.

Reply by LynnNC on 6/9/06 8:44am
Msg #124918

Re: AKA - Hard spot

The NC notary laws do not say how exactly ID must match the signature, but that we must use government-issued photo ID. In spite of this, the fact that her middle name was on the documents, and her former married name on her ID, was a problem. I would not have use the employee ID, other than it showed that her middle initial was "J". I felt comfortable that the borrower was one and the same as the person whose name was ont the documents and and ID.

I had her sign the documents"Cindy Janet Jones" as she had to sign the document exactly as printed, and had her add "AKA Cindy S. (for Smith) Jones so that I could use that name in the notary section. It was a Chase loan and I don't know how fussy they are, but I have done this in the past without a problem.

When I see the copy of her passport, I will feel satisfied that I have supported her name in the documents to my satisfaction as a notary.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 6/9/06 8:52am
Msg #124919

Re: AKA - Hard spot

I agree with Brenda that you should not change the way someone signs without first attempting to contact the company that hired you, preferably the title company or the lender. If you cannot reach anyone, you can choose to stop the signing, or sign with an AKA ("ID Name AKA Doc Name", but of course you must caution the borrower that the lender may not accept the docs signed this way and the docs may have to be redrawn.

It's certainly a hard spot as Brenda said, and each notary must do only what he or she feels comfortable with. I have had this situation happen twice, and both times the lender accepted "ID Name AKA Doc Name", however I must stress that you should only list the ID supported name in your notarial certificate.

Reply by LynnNC on 6/9/06 1:45pm
Msg #124990

Re: AKA - Hard spot

I did as you do, except that I had her sign "Doc Name AKA ID Name", then used the ID name in the notarial certificater.

Reply by PAW on 6/9/06 8:53am
Msg #124921

FL "operates" similarly

You said: "... people from CA and FL are not going to operate like that. They are going to insist on everything matching."

Not necessarily. From Subsection 117.05(5) of the Florida Statutes:

A notary public may not notarize a signature on a document unless he or she personally knows, or has satisfactory evidence, that the person whose signature is to be notarized is the individual who is described in and who is executing the instrument. A notary public shall certify in the certificate of acknowledgment or jurat the type of identification, either based on personal knowledge or other form of identification, upon which the notary public is relying.

It must be noted that we are required to **rely** on specific forms of ID, but the underlying intent is to identify the signer by "satisfactory evidence". So, FL is similar to the way TX does it, the result being the same.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/9/06 11:41am
Msg #124957

Re: FL "operates" similarly

**You said: "... people from CA and FL are not going to operate like that. They are going to insist on everything matching." Not necessarily. From Subsection 117.05(5) of the Florida Statutes:...**

My bad. Strike FL. Thanks, Paul.

Reply by PAW on 6/9/06 12:50pm
Msg #124973

No problem. You're not all that bad. :) n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/9/06 2:01pm
Msg #124997

Re: No problem. You're not all that bad. :)


There was a little notary girl,
Who had a little notary curl,
Right in the middle of her public forehead.
When she was good,
She was very, very good,
But when she was to honest anons cried, "You are horrid!"

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/9/06 2:03pm
Msg #124998

Typo up there, but I'll leave it...I meant to write the 2nd

verse about when she was bad, she was very, very bad

...but I'll leave that til later.

Reply by Regal/NC on 6/9/06 8:52am
Msg #124920

Lynn,
I concur with BrendaTX. This would have been a Stop Work, no can do. In the future I would recommend the following:
1. When calling the borrower inquire if they have required ID.
2. If EDocs, B4 printing call borrower to inquire if printed name is contained on their ID.
3. If borrower states YES, then print and proceed.
4. If there is a discrepancy, do not print until after you contact the SS, TC Lender.

Remember feeling comfortable can become uncomfortable very fast.
Keep your head up!

Reply by NCLisa on 6/9/06 9:59am
Msg #124932

You are to rely on goverment issued id for it's photographic purposes, and the basis of satisfactory evidence provided to you. NC closings are still regulated by the NC State Bar, we are still partially an attorney state, and changing the way the borrower signs, is UPL in this state, unless the lender/tc gives you permission.

I have discussed this in detail with our SOS in the past due to posts like this. If the borrower provides you with evidence to your satisfaction that they are the person on the document, you can notarize their name. The notarization does NOT have to be for the exact name on the government issued id. That is where so many notaries get confused. The DL is a form of id, not the name most most individuals use, or most lenders put on the loan docs.

eg: NCDL "Jane Marie Smith" docs state Jane Smith Johnson. Borrower also has voter registration, credit card or work id that says Jane Johnson. Borrower says she was married 3 months ago. You can notarize Jane Smith Johnson, Jane S. Johnson, Jane M. Smith, Jane M. Johnson or many other variations, she has proved to my satisfaction that she is Jane Smith Johnson. I document her NCDL in my journal with all it's dates, then in the notes section document her other forms of id that led me to satisfactorily believe she is Jane Smith Johnson.

NC DMV is notorious for mispelling names on DL's, if you went by the NCDL, you'd have a problem on about 1 out of every 15 DL's due to DMV error.

I notarized a change of address for the school board document for some friends last night that I have known for a couple years. I know them as Tammy and Tommy Richardson. I know who they are, talk to them all the time, our kids go to school together, we are on the same committees. I did not ask to see their id's, as they are personally know to me. I am sure her DL probably has Tamara Jones Richardson and his is probably Thomas Jason Richardson. They signed their names as Tammy Richardson and Tommy Richardson and I notarized them that way.

Reply by LynnNC on 6/9/06 1:55pm
Msg #124994

I normally do as you do; use Drivers License or other Gov't issued photo ID as main ID, then will accept birth certificates, marriage license, employee ID, voter's registration, tax return, etc. to link the ID name to the Doc name The problem last night was she had no ID with her middle name, "Janet", only an Employee ID with the middle initial "J". I wanted to see a copy of her passport, so I could link all her names, enter the info on the ID Aff and in my journal.

Unlike you, I do not notarize a name that does not match the ID. I use the secondary ID to link the names, but only notarize a form of the name on the ID, using the "less, but not more" rule.

Reply by NCLisa on 6/9/06 5:52pm
Msg #125034

If I can be reasonably sure by satisfactory evidence that the person is whom they claim to be I don't care what name they sign the docs with as long as it is with the name typed on the signature line. I am notarizing the identity of the person, not their legal name on their id.

Reply by Tina_MA on 6/9/06 6:34pm
Msg #125039

>>>Last night I had a signing where the borrower's middle name, "Janet", was on the documents and her former married name, "Smith" was used as her middle name on her driver's license. We met at a McDonald's where she did not have her passport, which has her middle middle name, former married name and current married name, which would link her name on the documents. She did have her employee ID which had her middle initial, "J", and I felt comfortable that her middle name was Janet.

I had her sign the documents "Cindy Janet Jones AKA Cindy S. Jones" since I could notarize only the name on her ID. She is going to fax a copy of her passport, which shows her name as Cindy Janet Smith Jones, to me today, before I send the documents, so that I can note it on the ID Aff and in my journal.

My question is, is a Name Affidavit sufficient when an AKA is used in signing the documents, or is a document that specifically says AKA necessary?<<<





Per my boss, the attorney, I essentially do what you do, only the name that appears on the ID must be signed first, then the name listed on the docs as the AKA.

The name on the ID is the one listed in the Notarization. We are only allowed to accept current Federal or State ID. Since some State ID does not include a physical description or signature, my boss does not allow me to accept them (i.e. welfare ID's, etc). No work ID's and such are allowed for ID purposes.

In MA, the name listed on the DL is supposed to be the borrowers legal name, and that is how they are identified.

Reply by NCLisa on 6/9/06 7:11pm
Msg #125043

NC notary laws do not state how they are to sign any document. An attorney is permitted to make the decision on how the borrower signs the docs or if the names should be changed, a notary does not have that authority in this state.

We are permitted to notarize for people that are personally known to us without having to view their id. If you don't know what their name is on the ID, and you know them as Dicky Mills, you've known them for 10 years, so you don't have to view their id, what name are you going to notarize?

Reply by Tina_MA on 6/9/06 7:53pm
Msg #125047

Whether I know someone personally or not, they had better hand over some ID, or I'm not Notarizing.

I don't care who it is, their ID info goes into my journal -- my neighbor has lived next door to me for almost 15 years, and yes, I made her bring her ID.

Then, I ID them from the name listed on the ID, not their nick name.