Posted by PA_NOTARY on 6/10/06 2:01am
Msg #125075

BANK NOTE

LAST YEAR I PURCHSED A LOAN FROM PNC BANK. I SIGNED THE MORTGAGE BUT NO ONE EVER NOTARIZED IT IN FRONT OF ME. I KNOW THIS IS WRONG; ANY THOUGHTS ON WHAT TO DO ABOUT THIS?

Reply by NCLisa on 6/10/06 9:43am
Msg #125110

In my state, I don't need to notarize the document in front of you. I can take it home and notarize it if I chose too. As a notary, I just need to see you sign the document, where and when I affix my seal and signature is entirely up to me.

Reply by PA_NOTARY on 6/10/06 11:05am
Msg #125116

no notary present when I signed! did some internet research after I asked this question and apparently there was a case where a borrower was going bankrupt in the state of Pa, and judge awarded the borrower not to pay mortgage because the acknowledgement was not considered legal. I can post the article if anyone is interested.

Reply by ruru_CA on 6/10/06 12:49pm
Msg #125132

This is really weird. Not not notarizing in front of you, but not having a notary present to witness you sign and may be notarize it after you leave. The notary has to witness you sign.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/11/06 7:41am
Msg #125225

I would like to read the article. [e-mail address]. This kind of 'stuff' fascinates me. My 'interpretation, without seeing the article - even if a Mortgage was for some reason 'not considered legal' , the person would personally owe the loan amount under the Note - the lender just couldn't foreclose on the Mortgage. BUT, they could sue on the Note, get a judgment, and foreclose on the general assets of the borrower, including the real estate.

Ernest, PA doesn't require signatures in our Register nor are witnesses required.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/11/06 10:06am
Msg #125233

sue, I agree.

I think the mortgage would still be valid in Texas if the loan were valid to begin with. In Texas if certain procedures are not followed by the lender, the lender has xx days to fix it and /or pay the bwr $1000 for the mishap (cannot remember off the top of my head) but the loan does not immediately go away if it is incorrect.

At first a read this like PA Notary was purchasing a loan from a bank as an investment like some purchase settlements or loans on property. I could not see why the purchaser of a loan would need to sign anything.

(UPL police, I am rattling. I don't anything about anything to do with law.)

Reply by PA_NOTARY on 6/11/06 9:13pm
Msg #125321

I AM NOT THAT GOOD AT THIS STUFF BUT I BELIEVE THIS WILL GET YOU THERE, IF NOT E MAIL ME AND I CAN SEND IT DIRECT
http://www.lowenstein.com/new/49.html

Reply by sue_pa on 6/12/06 7:42am
Msg #125357

Thanks for posting the link. My unlegal interpretation is different than yours. The borrower wasn't excused from not paying the mortgage - the case actually determined secured/unsecured status for the lender in the bankruptcy proceedings.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 6/10/06 3:15pm
Msg #125144

Hmmm. Interesting!

Does your state require a journal of notarial acts that the borrower is supposed to sign? (I hope!) If so, you've got lots of leverage.

Were the witnesses present? I've had signing services tell me not to worry about having a (second) witness, that they'd "take care of it". You can guess what I told them.

Do you want to claim that you didn't sign the document? That might not be the wisest idea, when considered carefully. Or do you just want to say that the document(s) was/were not properly notarized?