Posted by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 6/30/06 11:16am
Msg #129977

Florida - Witness State????

Call me stupid but I was under the impression that in the State of FL, it WAS NOT MANDATORY to have 2 witnesses on the MTG. Had something changes that I dont know about? I do know that we have certain lenders that we work with that require 2 witnesses and we will be glad to accomodate them insituations like this.

My problem is is that I have this NEW client who placed their first order. The loan closed and I get a call stating that the closer messed up because she did not get 2 witnesses on the mortgage. She only had herself as a witness. I politely explained that in the State of Fl, it is not mandatory..well his response was..there were 2 lines so she should have known to get 2 witnesses. My response, almost every mortgage I have notarized had 2 lines but that did not imply that I needed 2 witnesses.

Any thoughts on how to politely appease (sp?) this guy because he wants 2 witnesses and no other witnesses were present at the signing. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/06 11:27am
Msg #129983

Sherry,

Witnesses are only required on deeds of conveyances, not MTG's.
It is amazing to me that there are still TC's in FL that don't understand that.
You may want to research PAW's posts, I recall he posted the statute here on Not Rot
at one time or another.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 6/30/06 11:31am
Msg #129984

Re: Sherry,

Thanks for your response. You and I know that but how on earth do you convince the TC of that? His logic is that if there were 2 lines, she should have assumed that they needed 2 witnesses....LOL..sorry mind reading isnt in the job description...

He now wants my closer to get another witness but I am trying to explain to him that that cannot happen now but he is really perturbed!

Reply by Maggiemae_CA on 6/30/06 11:47am
Msg #129990

Re: Sherry,

Yes, conveyance Deeds are required to be witnessed by 2 individuals; some lenders "prefer" that the Mortgage also be witnessed. (Notary can be one witness, a neighbor or the person sitting next to you in Starbucks can be the second witness). Each time I have signed loans for FL properties I have used the "witness lines" just in case I'm working with a lender or TC that expects the witnessing to be done.

As for the "lines" for witnesses. I see them ALL the time. My borrowers get a little worried when they see the lines and I explain that the forms are standard and are used for all states; CA is not a state which requires witnesses and they do not need to be alarmed.

Sherry, sounds like the guy you're dealing with is anal and won't accept the explanation above. Best to have your notary find another witness and be done with it. Don't bother getting into a pissing contest with this guy. You're right, your notary was right. He's wrong, but it's his bat and ball and you need to play the game his way (unfortunately).

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/06 11:51am
Msg #129993

Re: Sherry,

Maybe the way to convince him is to show him the statutes.
Or, maybe pull up recorded mtg's online...show him they DO record w/o witnesses.
Those are 2 things I have done to convince certain persons in the industry about the
legal requirements.
If it's a lender thing, they shoud've notified you of that requirement IN WRITING, IMO.
Good luck!

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 6/30/06 11:55am
Msg #129994

Re: How would he respond. . .

. . .if you told him it would cost him extra?

Reply by Dee_Fla on 6/30/06 12:17pm
Msg #130000

Your right...only Deeds and conveyence require two widnesses, not one. The mortgage only requires one but 2 can witness/sign it. (of course the NNA will tell you something totally different )

I did a closing the other day that the mortgage document didnt even ask for a witness at all. I thought that was quite strange and the first for me. There were no lines for anyone to sign either. So I wondered if this company is aware of their error and if it comes back to me I'm going to say...."ahhhh U didn't ask for it and there were no places to sign!" Come to think of it...there was another company that did that and I called them and they had us make the lines and sign it. But by the time I did the closing the other day, it was so late, no one was even up at that ime of night. They didnt even have their fax machines on.

If they really wanted two witnesses to sign, did they emphasize that in the closing instructions that there have to be 2 witnesses? If it did not, then the TC needs to communicate more effectively.

Just a thought.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/06 12:26pm
Msg #130002

Sorry, Dee

Mtgs in FL don't require ANY witnesses, just a notarization. I often "witness" their signatures if the ack is on a second page, but it is NOT required.
I'll try to find the statutes to prove my position, or go online to sunbiz.org.
This is a BIG misconception!

Reply by Dee_Fla on 6/30/06 1:44pm
Msg #130033

Re: Sorry, Dee

Thank you Mistarella for correcting me on that...then I was under the wrong impression of the Mortgage witnesses. I just knew they had to be at least one. But now I know for sure ..and I appreciate you correcting & educating me on that.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/06 2:18pm
Msg #130063

Dee, thanks, but

The credit goes to PAW, who educated me

Reply by hcampersFL on 6/30/06 2:24pm
Msg #130067

PAW has educated most of us Florida Notaries at some time or

another! Thank Goodness!
Love ya PAW!

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/06 2:26pm
Msg #130069

Re: PAW has educated most of us Florida Notaries at some time or

Sometimes I think his generosity has no bounds.
I want to be just like him when I grow up, LOL

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/06 12:26pm
Msg #130004

Sorry, Dee

Mtgs in FL don't require ANY witnesses, just a notarization. I often "witness" their signatures if the ack is on a second page, but it is NOT required.
I'll try to find the statutes to prove my position, or go online to sunbiz.org.
This is a BIG misconception!

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/06 12:26pm
Msg #130005

Sorry, Dee

Mtgs in FL don't require ANY witnesses, just a notarization. I often "witness" their signatures if the ack is on a second page, but it is NOT required.
I'll try to find the statutes to prove my position, or go online to sunbiz.org.
This is a BIG misconception!

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/06 12:30pm
Msg #130008

Didn't mean to do that, sorry, n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/06 12:33pm
Msg #130009

Msg# 95887 addresses the issue and quotes the statutes n/m

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 6/30/06 12:40pm
Msg #130013

Thank you all for your posts....

also thank goodness for PAW....I read one of his posts where he listed the statute and shot that over to my client....with my apologies for not being able to obtain another witness...Have a great weekend everyone!