Posted by Brit Fidler on 6/29/06 3:03pm
Msg #129634

LO canceling me

Received an assignment for a closing. Called borrower to confirm time and location. She asked about her cash back and what her payments would be. Went over cash back; she was not happy so I advised her to call her LO. Then I explained her loan payments: note amount, taxes, and insurance. She said that was wrong too; once again I advised her to call her LO. Then she asked me about her loan so I explained the note to her: 30 year fixed with the first 5 years interest only and a 5 year prepay penalty. Wrong again! Well, long of the short, I guess the loan officer canceled me to find another closer who would not disclose that information.
Was I so wrong for going over that with her on the phone instead of going to her home to have her do the "sticker-shock" reaction? Please advise....

Reply by ARC/CA on 6/29/06 3:09pm
Msg #129636

I would have probably told the borrower over the phone that she could review the documents when you arrived. Then I would have preceded to let her look them over before she signed. You would have at least collected a fee if she didn't sign. Not only that, we are admonished over and over to refer borrowers to the LO if they have questions. Yes, this is the reality of the business. We know that LOs aren't always above board and they send us out to do the dirty work.

I'm sure you'll take a different approach the next time around. Good luck!

Reply by Brit Fidler on 6/29/06 3:15pm
Msg #129638

Thank you. I probably should have just gone out and delt with it at the table.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 6/29/06 3:13pm
Msg #129637

lemme guess

The appointment was scheduled well after the LO went home for the night and he/she was hoping you'd sell the loan or at least the RTC because he/she was no where to be found. Many experienced SA's on this board do the same thing to save them a trip on a signing that's going to tank.

Reply by Anonymous on 6/29/06 3:30pm
Msg #129642

You did what you were suppose to do. They asked a question, you advised calling the LO, but you have an obligation to address her question, which you did. The LO is a jerk, as many of them are. They expect us to push the RTC on something that is not what the borrower agreed to, and they knew it before the docs came down. Yes, if you were concern with only collecting a fee then you could of handled differently, but sometimes the small fee isn't worth the trouble when your sure it's going to tank.

Reply by Brit Fidler on 6/29/06 3:34pm
Msg #129644

True....or spending an hour in a closing waiting on them to make up their minds if they want to sign or not. Just frustrating.....knowing someone is over there right now disclosing the same thing and they may/may not sign.

Reply by Missy_Lulu on 6/29/06 3:32pm
Msg #129643

We are not to discuss the terms of the loan with the borrower. We can only explain the general function of the documents. I haven't seen it for a long time but it seems I remember in some of my instructions it stated to not discuss over the phone any of the terms of the borr loan.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 6/29/06 3:38pm
Msg #129646

well this would be where I part company

IF I'm lucky enough to have the docs in my e-mail prior to setting the appointment and IF the borrower asks me about cash out, interest rate or pre-payment...I'm gonna tell them. That would be an oddity of course because my docs never get here until I'm already an hour late. Now if the borrower wanted to go further into it I would direct them to the LO, HOWEVER the first thing I present them with is the HUD, then the note. You mean to tell me that IF you had the docs you wouldn't answer that question if asked on the phone? I've had borrowers TELL me not to leave the house until I call them with the bottom line on the HUD. I've not had the pleasure to find that particular instruction in my packages, IF I did I'm sure I would die laughing as I couldn't imagine getting early docs.

Reply by ARC/CA on 6/29/06 3:46pm
Msg #129648

Re: well this would be where I part company

Not to take away anything from "going the extra mile", but if I were a borrower I would stay in constant contact with the LO until I know the deal is done and all I have to do is sign. There should never be a surprise at closing. Anyone who doesn't follow the process is bound to be blindsided in the end.
I know that when I get to closing, the deal is finished and theres nothing that can be done at the table with regards to my loan. Would it have been any worse if the borrower was simply referred back to the LO to let them hash it out? You would have worked another day with the LO.

Reply by Brit Fidler on 6/29/06 3:49pm
Msg #129651

The closing company....

called to tell me the LO requested another closer. They said they had to keep their client happy, which I understand. They also said I did nothing wrong and they had their own issues with this LO.

Reply by Anonymous on 6/29/06 3:52pm
Msg #129653

Re: well this would be where I part company

She stated a couple of times she advised the borrower to call the LO. Many LO know the terms have changed and do not tell the borrower, they let us present the surprise hoping that the person will be forced to sign, because they have been dealing with the process for so long, and they need the funds to pay off on time other things. Ameriquest did this type of thing all the time. Countrywide lately seems to be doing it.

Reply by ARC/CA on 6/29/06 3:56pm
Msg #129656

Re: well this would be where I part company

Glad to hear the relationship was saved. Hope the LO has a satisfied client. But see, it doesn't matter who does the signing, if the terms don't change to the borrowers liking, they still won't have a closed loan.

You did what your gut and good customer service skills told you to do.

Reply by Brit Fidler on 6/29/06 3:57pm
Msg #129658

Re: well this would be where I part company

Hence, the re-disclosed broker docs pre-dated for 6-8-06 sent over with the lender docs.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 6/29/06 3:55pm
Msg #129655

ARC...this is my take

WE don't know all the details but it sounds like the typical "bait and switch". I don't think the poster did a thing wrong, and she most likely wouldn't want to work with this particular LO again. I had one actually whine on the phone to me that there was nothing he could do to further help the borrower and couldn't I figure out a way to "help out". Well duhhhhhh, borrower expected 15 year fixed at 6% as stated to him by LO. Turned into a 1st and 2nd, ARM on the 1st at 8% and the 2nd had a balloon. Do these LO's think the borrowers are stupid? You are indeed lucky if the deal is all but signed when you arrive, I haven't had that pleasure in a very long time. The poster has lost nothing in my opinion, her integrity is still in tact.

Reply by ARC/CA on 6/29/06 3:58pm
Msg #129659

Re: ARC...this is my take...I agree n/m

Reply by Anonymous on 6/29/06 4:00pm
Msg #129660

Re: ARC...this is my take

This seems to be happening more and more especially now that the economy is getting tighter. Then they expect us to sell it for them and are mad when we insist on just doing what we are allowed to do by law. I've had LO say I have to save their loan for them and convince them to sign. That's not my job!

Reply by Missy_Lulu on 6/29/06 4:15pm
Msg #129667

Re: well this would be where I part company

Oh I know what it was now! The borr wanted the docs emailed to them. That was it!
I asked approval to do so. Once I did that the borr decided not to make the aptmt because the figures were incorrect.

And no for the most part, I feel that discussing the terms of the loan is UPL. Once sitting with the borrower they have the ability to 'interpret the terms of their loan' by reading it themselves. If I were to read to them over the phone what I see, it could be seen that I am interpreting which I would consider to be UPL. Many instructions state that the SA is not to discuss the terms of the loan but simply generically explain the documents. If they have questions regarding the terms of their loan, they are to contact their LO.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/29/06 4:23pm
Msg #129669

Re: well this would be where I part company

I don't understand how it could be construed as UPL when the brw asks the interest rate, and you respond with the rate identified on the note.
Or, do I have a pre-payment penalty? and you respond with the information identified on the addendum.
When I sign a blind brw, I am instructed to read them directly from the appropriate doc.
Having a voiced opinion is a no-no, and telling them WHY is a no-no or explaining a ppp
legally is UPL. Not by disclosing the information that is printed on the docs.
Even when I am at a brw's, and they want to know the interest rate, I point to the rate on the note, and will voice the rate. Not UPL IMO.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/29/06 4:02pm
Msg #129661

I don't agree

In MY role as signing agent, I won't discuss they why's, but will address the where's.
If the brw wants to know the terms, either before or during the appt, I will be glad to point it out to them, that's why I am hired. EXCEPTION: If I am instructed NOT to disclose terms over the phone. I have NEVER been instructed NOT to disclose the terms, and would be suspicious if I had been.
I am not there to close the loan: that is the job of the LO. The brw should be prepared for the terms of the loan before I arrive, anyway.
I am there to identify the signer, make sure all the i's are dotted, the t's are crossed and answer pertinent questions, including the terms, w/o a voiced opinion on the deal.
Brit, forget about this one. I would've done the same thing as you did.
Getting this LO out of your life is perfect. You wouldn't want to sign any more of his/her deals anyway, would you?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/29/06 4:05pm
Msg #129662

with posters who think we are only to disclose the function

of the docs.
just wanted tomake that clear. My post jumped down past that poster's opinion.

Reply by ARC/CA on 6/29/06 4:10pm
Msg #129665

Re: with posters who think we are only to disclose the function

In the end it seems we all agree that this matter was the LO's problem. How much info. to disclose will always be a point of debate. All of the opinions are good as they offer various perspectives on the matter.

Reply by Brit Fidler on 6/29/06 4:05pm
Msg #129663

Heck no! n/m

Reply by Jason on 6/29/06 8:05pm
Msg #129727

You did right

We are not supposed to notarize amy document when the signer doesn't understand what the heck he is signing.

I ask old people to verify their wishes before signing a Will. I read clauses + ask if they want that. I check for alzhmrs, Rx highs, relatives who pressure them.

Loans are same thing.

If LO lies, then you don't want to be named as JDoe in the law suit later.

Heck with LO.

Reply by PAW on 6/29/06 9:42pm
Msg #129742

May be construed as UPL or a Privacy Policy violation

I have been advised by two attorneys here in FL, that I should NOT disclose ANY information concerning the loan particulars over the phone for two reasons:

1) It may be construed as UPL since the borrower cannot read and see what you are stating. Therefore, they (the borrower) will assume that you are providing the information from your own knowledge. If you misspoke or the borrower misunderstood then it is your word against theirs and not a favorable position to be in.

2) You cannot ascertain the identity of the person calling you. You cannot be sure the person to whom you are speaking is the intended recipients of the information and personal information.

I recommend simply responding that you cannot divulge that information over the phone for privacy reasons and that you will be more than happy to show them the particulars at the scheduled signing time.

Reply by MBCA on 6/29/06 10:40pm
Msg #129754

Re: Good answer PAW!

We have to verify their IDs when we arrive at a signing. We don't really know who we are speaking to on the phone!

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/29/06 11:14pm
Msg #129769

With all due respect...

Neither does the L/O or the title person who gives that information over the phone. Many times the L/O goves over figures prior to my arrival with the docs.
Technically, they could be giving it to anyone as well.
But, I would honor a client's wish not to pre-disclose figures.
Most L/O's seem to want the problems ironed out before I get there.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 6/29/06 10:41pm
Msg #129755

You da man PAW...once again the perfect answer short & sweet n/m

Reply by cyndi_ca on 6/29/06 11:52pm
Msg #129816

Re: You da man PAW...

Thank you very much PAW. Made me think on some things I hadn't before. Especially not really knowing who you are speaking with.