Posted by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 6/30/06 6:38pm
Msg #130148

Need your opinions...

Boy am I just full of situations today...I would appreciate any opinions whereas I want to be fair with both my client and the notary. I got a call from a client that I have worked with for 4 years now...they stated that they had not received a package back from one of our notaries who completed a closing on Monday afternoon (BTW this call came in yesterday morning - Thursday)....I contacted the closer and he stated that he dropped the docs on Tuesday. Well the PI that I am, I tracked the package on Fedex and saw that the docs were not picked up until Wednesday...a label was created on Tuesday but thats it...(I even contacted Fedex to make sure that I was reading the tracking info correctly)....closer is extremely laxadasical about the situation and my sneaking suspicion is that he did not actually drop the docs as stated...

Well my dilemma - my client is now being charged because the package was not received back in time for funding. They dont want to pay me - this is the 2nd time in 4 years that they have ever complained. I know how I WANT TO HANDLE this but I would truly appreciate any opinions from the notaries perspective...Thanks!

Reply by Jason on 6/30/06 7:01pm
Msg #130151

FedEx once lost my return loan pkg for 1.5 days. Found it on the truck that picked up contents of drop box.

Give notary the benefit of doubt.

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 6/30/06 7:27pm
Msg #130154

I've also had Fed Ex empty boxes more than half an hour earlier than the posted/scheduled pick up time. If I hadn't learned that lesson the hard way several years ago, I'd have dropped packages several times in already picked-up boxes.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/06 7:39pm
Msg #130156

I am just wondering what you mean by a laxadaisical attitude, and how well you know that particular closer.
I absolutely support what the others have said, esp. about Fed Ex, I've had the same problems, and I've had them no-shoe to pick up a package that I hadn't realized wasn't picked up as agreed.
But on the flip side of the coin, I've forgotten packages and have had to RUSH 30 miles at the last minute to get them there on time, My bad.
Fortunately, I've not experienced total forgetfulness, and have not caused a package to be late.
If I had, I know I would come clean and accept the consequences (ouch!)
But, that being said, and me not knowing more, it has been my experience with most people, that you should trust your first instincts.
I'd come right out and ASK if he forgot to get it to the drop box on time.
If someone is lying, their response may give you some better insight.
Sorry about your luck this week!

Reply by TitleGalCA on 6/30/06 7:50pm
Msg #130159

Strictly from a marketing/self-employed standpoint...

I'd eat the charges Sherry. It would be more important to me (in your shoes) to keep your client happy one one signing than to argue it.

I'm looking at it not from a notary standpoint...but from yours as a business owner.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/30/06 7:50pm
Msg #130160

Fair is a relative term...

What is your gut? Honestly, it doesn't really matter what we think in this situation. You've got to put on your toughest 'Business Owner' face and go with your gut on this. There is no real 'perfect' answer in my opinion.

But since you've asked for opinions...

The sad fact is that I've taken many losses for NO FAULT of my own. You are a signing service which means you are part of 'this end' of the chain and sometimes you are going to have to suck up some of the crap in order to keep the clients happy. I obviously do what I can to limit losses but if they can't be avoided I try to turn them into 'good customer service' and 'client retention'.

I would call FedEx and speak to a representative and see how much info they can give you. You said it was a pick-up, if so, was it initiated on time? If it was a regular pickup... why didn't the driver show? Were other packages picked up at the same time?

Finally, I would call the notary and tell him the situation and ask him what he thinks you should do? Is he willing to take some of the blame or at least shoulder some of the cost? If he is business savvy at all, he will absorb some of the loss and take some pressure off you.

I'm not sure what you meant by 'my client is being charged'... is this a fine? Is this a withholding of TC fee? This part I don't understand. Somehow... that 'charge' is going to have to filter down to the notary. If the TC is penalized by the lender, and you are penalized by the TC, then the notary can darn sure expect to be penalized.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/30/06 7:59pm
Msg #130162

How many times do you want to fight with the notary about the fee? Sometimes the best remedy is to pay the fool, cut your losses and put a big black X by their name.

If you cannot trust them to be honest about the day they dropped the docs, drop them. They are a trainwreck coming down the tracks. B/c the pickup time here changed from 5 back to 3 pm and I did not check on Friday night, I missed a Sat pickup last week for a Friday night closing. I just wrote the title company and told them not to expect the docs until Tuesday. I fessed up immediately.

"Oh, no problem," she said. Tuesday was the RTC day.

Must have really not been a problem. Got another closing for them next week.

If you have done business that long with this TC, you should eat the cost, pay the notary and NEVER hire them again. That's the way I do business.

I personally believe that every notary should GUARANTEE their work and be willing to forego their signing fee entirely if they make an error within their control, plus go fix it and eat it. If that were the case, notaries would pay attention, get it right the first time. One mistake a year would GREATLY improve progress and fees.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 6/30/06 9:22pm
Msg #130181

Re: Need your opinions...-Yes, I totally agree a notary

should guarantee their work or theY redo, corrections of errors is on the notary, drop when you say you'll drop. The is a business that runs on critical time and flawless paperwork, either the notary can do this each and every time or don't use them again.....MY 2 CENTS.....

Reply by Signing_Doc on 6/30/06 7:59pm
Msg #130163

ok let me get the timeline straight....signing was Monday afternoon (may have been completed too late to make the Monday cutoff)...if the Monday cutoff WAS missed AND the docs were placed in the FedEx box (as opposed to being taken to FedEx/Kinko's or another FedEx outlet, then they would have been picked up and scanned on Tuesday for arrival on Wednesday. IF, however the closer held the docs until AFTER the pickup on Tuesday (thus they did not get scanned until Wed for a Thursday closing), then IMHO the closer is the first one I'm looking at as to what happened.! I make my own labels on the computer AND take them to FedEx/Kinko's for dropoff. Even though I don't need it (I can track it on myfedex.com) I ALWAYS get a receipt showing the date/time it was scanned into the system by the FedEx/Kinko's employee. Of course, if the closer just dropped it into a box, then it is POSSIBLE that either it was done too late to be picked up that day or FedEx missed it (not too likely). You also state that the closer is extremely laxadasical about the situation. The dictionary shows the meaning of the word to be
"Lacking spirit, liveliness, or interest; languid". If I were the closer and this happened, I would have my receipt as stated, I would call FedEx/Kinko's and start my OWN investigation. But if the closer showed that he/she was "lacking spirit, liveliness, or interest", this would tell me that he/she has been caught and doesn't know how to get out of it (and is not man/woman enough to own up to the mistake). I can't tell you what to do about the closer, but if I were in your situation, I would advise the closer that, based upon your research, he/she is being placed on a "do not call" list for a period of xxx days, and then IF used again, will be babysat, UNTIL he/she can prove their worth. If the closer balks at this, then I would discontinue my usage of that closure. This is just my opinion, since I'm not a signing service. Good luck Sherry..."Doc" Stuart

Reply by PL on 6/30/06 8:11pm
Msg #130167

For us who live in the "population challenged" areas, where driving to Kinko's adds 50 miles roundtrip and there is only one 3:50 pickup give or take 20 minutes box in the area. I have to use that box and hope that the overnight service delivers. In your case, I would say your only choice is: do I believe a person who I entrusted with these strangers financial data or do I believe that Fedex is 100% infalliable? I can't speak for anyone else but I have been screwed more than once by Fedex,UPS & worst of all DHL. There are many cogs in this closing wheel and it always seems to me that it is the Notary who gets the lion's share of blame when the wheel grinds to a halt.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/30/06 8:49pm
Msg #130174

Re: Need your opinions...I'm with you Doc...

If I had an issue over FEDEX or UPS pick up, I'd be on them like stink on a cow patty. I use boxes to drop off all the time and never had one not be picked up due to their error. However, I do use boxes which title companies here use and feel that that's a better box than one outside of a business just out there on the corner. I am sure it happens...but I'd be my own PI and get totally jiggy with straightening it out asap.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 6/30/06 9:01pm
Msg #130175

Re: Need your opinions...I'm with you Doc...

nice to see that 'great minds think alike'...well off to synagogue...Shabbat Shalom y'all (bless your little hearts)....talk on y'll later

"Doc"

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/30/06 11:51pm
Msg #130212

Re: Need your opinions...I'm with you Doc...

I once had Fed Ex forget to pick up the drop box which is right outside the front door of the main facility near me. It was a Saturday, the pickup time is 5:00, I dropped the docs around 3. A lot of times I won't drop docs on Friday if I have to go out of my way and know I'll be dropping on Saturday anway, so I had dropped about 5 or 6 packages, some which were signed on Thursday evening.

My phone started ringing off the hook Monday morning. It made for a fun day.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 6/30/06 9:02pm
Msg #130176

Your perspectives are truly helpful...

I have had this same situation arise many times before and when it was addressed with the closers, they were usually extremely concerned about wanting to prove that they were not at fault (and in all honesty, most of the time, they arent)..that is why my intuition is telling me that from the lack of concern on this closers part (he couldnt even tell me if he dropped docs in a box or at a counter), it is his blunder and he wont fess up....Now another thing is that if a closing happened on Monday, he technically had 2 opportunities to drop the docs...the 1st on Monday (even if he missed pick-up, at least he would have the darn docs out of his hands) OR on Tuesday and according to fedex (I did speak with them directly) all that was done on Tuesday was a label was created on their website....

Anway...I have been known to pay courier fees to get docs hand delivered ($400 on one occassion and $350 on another) just to save face with my client for a closers blunder BUT as a businesswoman, I do not feel that I should take the full hit in situations like this whereas I had no control over it...

I truly appreciate all of you and your responses! Have a wonderful weekend and happy and safe 4th!

Reply by christiSocal on 6/30/06 9:25pm
Msg #130182

Re: Your perspectives are truly helpful...

If the guy "can't" remember if he dropped at the counter or a box, I'd say he's either drunk or a liar. How do you forget that? As someone who did recently completely forgot to drop a package, It does happen, but he should own up to it and take the consquences. I told the company I was dropping for what had happened, I was lucky, because of the rtc there was no problem. I wn't let it happen again though!

Reply by Joe Ewing on 6/30/06 9:59pm
Msg #130189

Just do what others do. IT'S ALWAYS THE NOTARYS FAULT! Pay the notary and cross him off you list. How easy was that?

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 6/30/06 9:17pm
Msg #130179

On two occassions in the past year, I was called by a SS/TC asking "where the $#!@ package was". Ever courteous, I informed the SS/TC that I would attempt to track the package through a FedEx supervisor. After several transferred phone calls and my INSISTENCE that the FedEx call center contact the local depot manager, it was discovered on BOTH occassions that the drop box had not been emptied the previous evening. The depot managers excuse the first time was that "a new driver was subbing on that route, and missed the box". The second time, it was due to inclement weather (we have little things called hurricanes down here... this was during Wilma)
It took the better part of a day on both occassions to get FedEx to admit to their error, but was worth the effort on my part to save my good name with these respective SS/TC's. Each time, when I told the supervisor the importance of the situation, she readily accomodated me with an email verifying that I had, in fact, dropped the package on time.
Since I am not willing to repeat that sort of situation, I now drive ALL packages to the depot.
More time? Yep. More gas? Yep. But well worth it in the long run for me.

Reply by Ndwa on 7/1/06 12:35am
Msg #130218

Did you know...

the Has & Not PU sign on FedEx box is electronically controlled by either the driver's scanner or a remote? I'd think it's logged with a time when the driver pick up.

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 7/1/06 11:49am
Msg #130246

Fedex is just slightly more competent than UPS

The UPS and FedEX factor is a real hassle. I have gone directly to the Fedex locale, where the person is standing there and everything and will get my package there before the 7:00 pm westcoast cutoff. The long and short of it is that the package still will have a 1 day lag time for reaching the next day locale. UPS is worse, I have dropped my package at the UPS store and will still get crap, I check the online tracking and there appears to be a disconnect from the store to the online tracking.

I am beginning to think that these companies are trying to drive me crazy, but I am trying to service my customers appropriately. Especially my ebay customers.

sorry about the grammar and spelling, my two year old is having a "moment".

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/1/06 12:02pm
Msg #130249

Re: Did you know...thanks NDWA n/m

Reply by SueW/Tn on 7/1/06 12:06pm
Msg #130250

Re: Did you know...

While this makes perfect sense to me Andy it isn't always the case. The drop box at the Post Office in my City always says "already picked up"...ALWAYS yet when I track the package I find it was picked up at the standard time. At another location they always picked up at 7 p.m., says it on the box. I was running extremely late and arrive at the location at 6:45, it's raining cats and dogs and I sit in the car watching and waiting for the driver. At 8 p.m. (thinking he's running late due to the weather) I get out to double check the time on the box, it says "already picked up". Ya just can't count on what they're saying...FedEx is the WORST for me, not dependable and you certainly cannot go by their directives (at least in my community).

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 7/1/06 1:42pm
Msg #130263

Re: Did you know...No kidding, how did you discover that?

I get so disgusted at one box, I seldom use for drops but do grab supplies from, it is never stocked. I leave the FedEx person nasty notes all the time, DOES NO GOOD....

Reply by PAW on 7/1/06 1:44pm
Msg #130265

Don't use drop boxes!!

As you so vividly pointed out, don't use drop boxes. There are times where they are emptied early, late, or not at all. However, if you always drop them at an authorized shipping center, and get a receipt from the counter clerk, you're golden.

You may want to make up a confirmation sheet for your drops. My sheet has the following columns:

- date
- Tracking Number
- Package Type
- Deliver to:
- Received by
- Location

When dropping of packages at a shipping center, I have the counter clerk sign my sheet in lieu of getting a receipt. Works for me.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 7/1/06 1:47pm
Msg #130267

Re: Don't use drop boxes!!Yes, I have used a drop box in the

past a time or two but no more, for me I walk it into my local Postal Connection and feel totally confident it's going where it needs to go when it needs to go......

Reply by Ndwa on 7/1/06 3:19pm
Msg #130273

Re: Don't use drop boxes!!Yes, I have used a drop box in the

I saw a FedEx clerk did it to a box outside the hub as I walk in to drop of a package. I asked and she said yes it's done with that remote/scanner.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 7/1/06 1:56pm
Msg #130268

Re: Don't use drop boxes!!

In my community I have NO choice in the matter. No Kinkos, no official FedEx manned station as they closed the only one down last month because it's "only" 25 miles from the main terminal. It's either do the drive (usually on saturday's) OR utilize the drop boxes. There is no weekend pickup anywhere other than the long drive. I hate it! I don't know what FedEx is thinking but it's next to impossible to meet deadlines here with them. I've even asked my clients IF they would ship UPS (6 day's a week pickup) and they don't want any part of UPS. It's a nightmare!

Reply by PAW on 7/1/06 2:13pm
Msg #130269

Re: Don't use drop boxes!!

We don't have a FedEx/Kinkos nor a UPS Store within 25 miles of here. We do have an "authorized" shipping center for all three services that I use. No Saturday pickups though. For that, I have to drive to the 'big' city (Tampa) to drop, and I usually charge an extra fee if they want Saturday drops. Most just say drop on Monday. Of course, when I do (signing after last pickup - 4 PM - on Friday), I get a phone call on Monday wondering where the package is. I remind them that we are rural not urban, so there's no Saturday pickup. I also show that on my completion report, which they seem never to circulate to those who need to know anything.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 7/1/06 3:43pm
Msg #130276

Re: Don't use drop boxes!! Sue in your type of situation

they are probably on alert to be sure to collect from the drop boxes because they may be more widely used in your area, do you think?

Reply by SueW/Tn on 7/1/06 6:19pm
Msg #130280

I dunno Susan, could be

Stupid me, I can't get used to no longer having Saturday pickups ANYWHERE in town and it seems like the past 3 friday's I've got a FedEx that has to go. It continues to skip my mind UNTIL I'm getting the package prepared! Drats! I'm going to have to use Paul's suggestion and just begin either charging for the Saturday drive or drop it and let it get there late. I don't know what FedEx is thinking!

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 7/1/06 9:16pm
Msg #130288

Re: I dunno-Sue I absolutely would charge extra for it...

price of gas is to high not to.

Reply by Bonnie Glaubitz on 7/2/06 11:09am
Msg #130340

Re: I dunno-Sue I absolutely would charge extra for it...

and a lesson learned the hardway.... we are a rural only one pkup a day by fed-ex 5pm area, I had a package to go, I received a fed-ex delivery to the house and asked the driver if he could take it, he said sure.....that was the beginning of a nightmare. 3 days later I get a call from the signing company where is the pkg, I gave them the tracking # and also tracked it myself, NOTHING there....I call fed-ex, fortunately I still had the box with the label from the package that was delivered, they were able to locate which driver took it (and then lectured me on giving an express pkg to a ground driver) the truck & his uniform said FED_EX, how was I to know. Anyway he was on vacation and they couldn't reach him....I begged them please just go look in his truck...is that too much to ask??? well finally a Supervisor sensed my desperation and Lo and Behold there it was behind his seat. Fed-ex drivers do make mistakes. Have a great 4th of July

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/2/06 5:31pm
Msg #130427

Re: Don't use drop boxes!! PAW

The "authorized shipping centers" in my neck of the woods charge the paying co. an additional fee, for their services, min $1/$5 max
I got chewed out by the hiring party at one time (my only time) for using them.
It has been my experience to check with the hiring party before using that method of
doc pick-up.
In my experience, some will say yes, and some will say no.

Reply by PAW on 7/2/06 10:23pm
Msg #130465

Re: Don't use drop boxes!! PAW

Huh??? My understanding is that a truly "authorized" (meaning they have a service contract with the courier and can act as their agent in a binding manner) cannot add on additional fees. I believe that FedEx actually pays their authorized centers a dollar for each package. I'm not sure about UPS.

A question is puzzling me about this. How can they (the shipping center) add an additional fee to a pre-paid shipment? If the airbill has been previously prepared by the shipper (aka you) or the "paying" company, e.g. using online shipping label generation, the billing information has already been posted. Now, if you are using a blank label to ship or the shipping center creates the label, that may be different.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/2/06 10:25pm
Msg #130466

Re: Don't use drop boxes!! What about calling for pick up?

Does that put a wad in anyone's drawers?

Reply by PAW on 7/2/06 10:39pm
Msg #130468

Re: Don't use drop boxes!! What about calling for pick up?

Yes siree Bob it sure does. Pickup costs anywhere from $0 to $25 depending on local and service in the area. I've not had any complaints, but I have never had to call for pickup except once for FedEx. I always have to call for DHL pickup if I have a package for them. Thankfully, DHL isn't used too much as they are far from being reliable in my section of the swamp.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/2/06 11:27pm
Msg #130470

Re: Don't use drop boxes!! What about calling for pick up?

I have used a call out only once. Someone on the forums said they always called for pickup and no gripes in many years...thus my query.

Thanks, Paul.