Posted by renlauren on 6/27/06 4:43pm
Msg #129001

Ok, What would you do?

I had a signing last night at midnight(since it's EOM) where the borrower was not able to show valid picture ID. The only thing she had was the form from the Secretary Of State showing she applied for a new ID card. Well when I told her I couldn't sign w/out proper ID she said her brother was going to get the ID for her. So we started signing(yes I know I shouldn't of done that but it was late and I was tired) and when we were finished her brother wasn't back yet. So this morning she faxed a copy of her state ID card and SS card to me, but it was from an old title company she used and she still couldn't show anything w/ her picture. Now of course the loan officer and the SS wants me to send the deal out but I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with it. Especially since the signatures on the SS card and ID are different. So what should I do in this situation? Please don't be too mean!

Reply by ARC/CA on 6/27/06 4:52pm
Msg #129002

Let me be one of the first to say, "Don't be too hard on yourself." You realize that you made a serious mistake, one that you won't soon forget. I'm not familiar with the laws in MI. Is it too late to find credible witnesses? Do you have any other options to correct this? Love your conscience, it will keep you from making this mistake again. Good luck!

Reply by Signing_Doc on 6/27/06 4:54pm
Msg #129003

First...what does your state laws say regarding proper ID to be used (picture, non picture etc)...
Second...i'm assuming from your description of the state ID card that she faxed, there is not a picture on there....
I would check with the LO to see if he/she has a copy of the requested docs on file (usually done when they first do the 1003....IF they are competent)...if he/she does, I don't see a problem.

HOWEVER...(here it comes)...I would check with the LO and SS, inform them of the situation. More than likely, they will advise you to send the docs without the items and place the onus upon the LO or borrower (or both) to provide the needed documents...OR funding MAY be held up.

You learned a lesson...I bet it wont happen again.....Will it?....Will It?...(was that too mean?!) :-)

"Doc"

Reply by JanelWI on 6/27/06 5:03pm
Msg #129009

Re: It is your commission. The lender or Title company

Is not going to back you up if something is fraudulent. Not to mention, it should have been made clear that state required photo ID is mandatory. The signing should have been adjourned. The TC or Lender called and told the proper ID is not available. You should have told the borrower and Lender that it is not your policy to close a loan without proper ID.

I am not sure the implications of holding the paperwork. But If I were you I would go back at your own expense until you see the new id and examine the id for yourself and make sure it is legit. Perhaps this can be done during the RTC time. The paperwork should have never been signed. You have no way of really knowing she is who she says she is. You made the situation worse by having the paperwork signed. Being tired is no excuse to jeopardize your commission. Good question on what to do with the paperwork. You have to be reasonably sure she is who she says she is and that is what the id verification is for.

I hope it works out. I would not suggest doing that again!!!!

Reply by Signing_Doc on 6/27/06 5:06pm
Msg #129011

good answer Janel...better than mine n/m

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/27/06 5:08pm
Msg #129012

This is a no-go in Arizona. I wouldn't do it... not for a second. I know you want to please them but she didn't have ID... An old fax from someone else would not satisfy my state requirements and I would not be able to accept it. (A photocopy of ID is not acceptable in AZ).

Out of the goodness of your heart and to your own detriment, you began a signing with the understanding that proper ID would be provided BEFORE you were done. It wasn't... in my state the notarization would ALREADY BE INVALID and if I was to send it in... I could lose my commission if there was ever a problem with it.

Please know that I am speaking from an Arizona perspective only. I am just getting the impression that if your state laws allowed 'ID by photocopy' and/or 'ID without photo' that you wouldn't even be concerned.

Don't be too hard on yourself! We've all been bitten in the A$$ by our desire to just 'get the job done'.

Reply by Deb_CO on 6/27/06 5:09pm
Msg #129013

First, why would you start signing ANYTHING without positively IDing the signer? You said ' I told her I couldn't sign without proper ID', but then you, what, changed your mind and let the signer proceed? Their reasoning must have been extremely compelling. That's the first mistake. You're running the show there, not the signer. It is a protective measure for every party concerned that this very important step not be skipped or overlooked at any time. What are your guidelines for ID in MI? And a fax? How do you know it was 'her' faxing you without physically being in her presence? Again, no photo ID presented and this time, no person present--what are the notary laws in MI? And sigs don't match?? OMG. That's possible if the SS card was signed when the person was a youth, but come on...still no pic ID? Faxes can be so easily altered.

My advice, if this is indeed a legit post, would be to throw yourself on the mercy of the client and tell them what you did. How do you know who actually signed those docs? If they say 'oh, it's me', that's just not good enough, at least in my state--no ID with photo, we are done--end of story. You could have been an instrument in the act to commit fraud and not even known it.

Reply by NM_CO on 6/27/06 5:31pm
Msg #129023

Re: Ok, What would you do? - Deb

You're my new herrrroooooo..........

Reply by riannonsd on 6/27/06 9:51pm
Msg #129114

What I would do.

If you are not sure that is the person she said she was, call the signing co, and tell them that you are concerned that this is a fraudulent act. If they want the docs, I would inform them you can send the docs in, but the pages with the notarization won't be included, untill the borrower can properly identify themselves. A fax copy of an id with out a picture and a ss card with a different signature doesn't cut. Remind the ss co that you were being flexible she was supposed to have proper id there before you left and she didn't. Since she didn't identify herself properly you won't be able to apply your notary to the docs.

I am sure she was compelling, remember the ones that will get you are the ones you like. That is how fraud is done. They are charming other wise more people would be wise to the schemes.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/27/06 10:05pm
Msg #129117

Re: What I would do. Very interesting post, Riannonsd

**they want the docs, I would inform them you can send the docs in, but the pages with the notarization won't be included, untill the borrower can properly identify themselves.**

I agree that NEVER should a notary do it without ID, however, this notary was pretty much conned into it.

Not that it is an excuse but it's something that an honest person might have happen to them. Since the guy never showed up with the id and the fax was an old one I'd say there is probably something wrong with this picture.

There is nothing that is okay about the way this went down - notary not doing her job as well. But this might be one way a notary could save her rumpus on this one. Interesting post, indeed. You're a thinker.

I think the other notary has shown some new notary jitters...I am glad he/she did not immediately send in the docs and hope that he/she will not without proper - in person ID.

If she does it's her rear if it goes sour. The SS and TC and LO will all try to bully, but hang tough and be willing to let this one go.