Posted by Anonymous on 6/19/06 11:19am
Msg #126802

Re message #126179, Ventura County fraud, notary in trouble

for backdating RTC. It is not a notarized document, and sometimes the lender tells us not to change dates on the RTC, so how is the notary in trouble for this? Arent we supposed to follow the lender instructions regarding the RTC????

Reply by JM_NY on 6/19/06 12:27pm
Msg #126806

If RTC dates are incorrect it is is a law that gives a bwr 3 days to cancel. If dates are wrong and bwr is asked to sign it the notary signing agent is commiting fraud. Most lenders make sure RTC dates are correct.

Reply by Anonymous on 6/19/06 12:49pm
Msg #126811

Not according to post on GMN board saying to follow lenders

instructions.

Reply by PAW on 6/19/06 12:56pm
Msg #126813

Re: Re message #126179, Ventura County fraud, notary in trou

The dates may not be wrong. Even if they are, the law doesn't say the dates must be correct. The law (Title 12 USC) states:

[quote]
The consumer may exercise the right to rescind until midnight of the third business day following the occurrence described in paragraph (a)(1) of this section that gave rise to the right of rescission, delivery of the notice required by paragraph (b) of this section, or delivery of all material disclosures, whichever occurs last. If the required notice and material disclosures are not delivered, the right to rescind shall expire 3 years after the occurrence giving rise to the right of rescission, or upon transfer of all of the consumer's interest in the property, or upon sale of the property, whichever occurs first. In the case of certain administrative proceedings, the rescission period shall be extended in accordance with section 125(f) of the Act.
[/quote]

That's how the 3 day right to rescind is calculated, regardless of what dates are provided on the notice.

The notice, per Reg Z, [quote]

... shall identify the transaction or occurrence and clearly and conspicuously disclose the following:
(1) The retention or acquisition of a security interest in the consumer's principal dwelling.
(2) The consumer's right to rescind, as described in paragraph (a)(1) of this section.
(3) How to exercise the right to rescind, with a form for that purpose, designating the address of the creditor's place of business.
(4) The effects of rescission, as described in paragraph (d) of this section.
(5) The date the rescission period expires.
[/quote]

Typically, the RTC will show the following wording, "... you must send notice no later than MIDNIGHT of <a date> (or MIDNIGHT of the THIRD BUSINESS DAY following the latest of the three events listed above)." Thus, there is no need to fret over the dates that are provided on the RTC.

Granted, they should be correct, but if the lender does not want you to make any changes to any docs, including changing the dates on the RTC, there is no harm, no foul, as the wording of the law and the notice provide the borrowers the correct rescission period. Just make sure the borrowers date their signatures on the current day.

Reply by JM_NY on 6/19/06 1:19pm
Msg #126818

Re: Re message #126179, Ventura County fraud, notary in trou

I stand corrected. thank you.

Reply by HisHughness on 6/19/06 1:00pm
Msg #126815

I don't think a notary can skate responsibility through a narrow interpretation of what a notary's duties are. The RTC may not be a notarized document, but the signing agent is not being paid to notarize it. He is being paid >>as a signing agent<< to oversee the correct execution of an unnotarized document.

If the transaction is fraudulent, and if he commits an act in furtherance of that fraud -- especially an act for which he is being compensated -- then I think he has culpability in the fraud. And I think his participation is rendered even more egregious, though the specific act was outside the range of his official duties, because the borrower probably relied upon his position as a notary public for assurance the transaction was legitimate.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 6/19/06 1:22pm
Msg #126819

This notary may or may not be in trouble, but if he or she is; it's likely due to deliberate fraud in re: an identity issue, or perhaps by simply by association with the brokers/agents being investigated or knowingly participating in fraud (just like the handbook says), rather than "backdating the RTC". We haven't seen the court case yet and I'm only privy to local gossip, not facts.

Paul set out the RTC law quite well in the post just above. The important thing is the 3 day recission right, not what the signing agent does or doesn't do with those dates! (why do we make ourselves so important.....)

Same with lender reqs - forget what they "required". Is it legal or not?

NSA and lender procedures exist to fulfill the law, but aren't the law - this case involves breaking the law, period. We'll see how it turns out.

Reply by LisaWI on 6/19/06 1:35pm
Msg #126821

My question is, what else was backdated?? Are they referring to the date the borrower(s) put on the signature line? Wouldnt the dates on the RTC be consistant with the date of the docs and the signing, or am I not reading this right? And even if they werent, why would anyone want to raise a red flag with the RTC date and date it differently than the rest of the docs?
Speaking of, has anyone ever told a borrower NOT to use a certain date on the docs? Like backdating their signature.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 6/19/06 2:16pm
Msg #126826

Read the original post.

In the original post, it was the POSTER who was asked to back date a RTC, not the notary being investigated.

This is what the article said about the notary:

***Hernandez, a notary, faces two counts of procuring or offering false or forged instruments for recording, Gilliam said.***

That is the charge.

Reply by CalimnCA on 6/19/06 4:44pm
Msg #126856

Notaries Public are not to fill in dates

We are not supposed to fill in the date of the RTC. You can say the title/lender suggests you enter todays date here and rec date here. Then out of your hands. I know a lot of companies ask us to fill it in but it is not our place to fill it in. JMHO and others I just had a meeting with on this exact topic

Reply by PAW on 6/19/06 6:27pm
Msg #126871

I disagree

Notaries don't fill in the date as it is not a notary's duty to do so. But the SIGNING AGENT can, if so instructed by the lender. (Remember, you wear two hats, do two different jobs, have two separate responsibilities.) There are many lenders and title companies that require the signing agent to correct and/or complete the RTC. It IS the Signing Agent's job.

Reply by Anonymous on 6/19/06 6:27pm
Msg #126870

Have not read the original story, but perhaps the notary altered the documents after the fact. In that case, the signing agent might be in trouble.