Posted by Pamela on 6/14/06 8:58am
Msg #125825

Signature Question!

This is a twofold question (Could not find this answer via "Search" button)!

As I do more signings and public notariztions, I am encountering people who refuse to sign "as printed". They tend to sign their "legal" signature (as shown on their identification). For example, instead of signing Alfred John Doe, as is printed on the document, the document is signed A. Doe. [Of course I explain this to them that they need to sign as printed, yet they do not. ]

As of yet, there has not been a problem with the documents being accepted by the sender.
And the loans have been funded as such. However, can this manner of signing create problems later on ( for example at the recorder's office)?

Second question, for those people who actually sign their name as printed (Alice Jane Doe), yet their legal signature is A. Doe, can this also create future problems?

Thanks,

Pam

Reply by cyndi_ca on 6/14/06 9:10am
Msg #125829

It is important to keep control of your signing and perhaps letting the BO's know that if they do not sign as printed they could potentially hold up the funding process. JMO

Reply by Cindy Dorman on 6/14/06 9:14am
Msg #125830

That seems to be my biggest dilemma with signings. Before we start I stress more than once that the names musted be signed "as printed". As we go through the docs often the printed names are not consistent thoughout. Some have "Jane S. Doe", some "Jane Doe". I believe that the AKA signature statement should cover this. I haven't had a problem yet either.

Reply by PL on 6/14/06 9:15am
Msg #125831

Who is to say that the signature they sign is not Alfred John Doe? I have one of those signatures that looks like I did not graduate the 5th grade, but it reflects my full name and mirrors my license. I always ask if what they just signed reflects the name on the docs and if they say yes, who am I to say you'll need to do better on the rest of the docs. I have never had a problem working this way, so why rock the boat?

Reply by Sarah Siracusa on 6/14/06 9:51am
Msg #125841

I had this as well one day. After telling a man that he needs to sign just as the documents are printed he said to me "I could but that wouldn't be my signature". He was quite insistant (a jerk really) andt that was not how he signs anything. Since I had always been told that they need to sign only as printed I called the Title Co. and after being put on hold for a while they said it is ok to have him sign as he wanted which was his intial of his first name and then his last name. I don't know if this would always be the case however. I still always ask the borrowers to sign as printed and they are usually accomodating.

Reply by PAW on 6/14/06 10:05am
Msg #125846

The most important item is that the signature be consistent throughout the documents and ID. If everything "matches" (as much as we can tell, we're not handwriting experts), then there should be no problem.

I once asked the FL SOS about this and was told that whatever the signer customarily and consistently use as their signature is their "official" signature, no matter how or what name is printed beneath it. Given that response, I still say "sign as printed" but if they choose not to because "it's not their signature", then I will not argue or press the point. To date, I've only had one company have a problem with the "signature" and that was because the borrower used a facsimile stamp, which the SOS said was their "official" signature. (He even used it on his driver's license, so all signatures matched and were consistent throughout the document set.)

Reply by Grace Westlund on 6/14/06 10:16am
Msg #125851

I have a Signature Affidavit that I received from one of the signing services that the borrower states that "This is my true and correct legal signature and it does in fact say ____________. (Must match loan documents)". This form could be used in this situation and would save any problems with acceptance of unreadable signatures. If anyone would like a copy of this form send me an email, included in my link and I will forward to you.

Reply by janCA on 6/14/06 11:52am
Msg #125895

If the signature on the DL doesn't seem to match what's on the documents I just make sure there is a copy of the DL sent back with the docs for verification. I keep a copier in my vehicle if the borrower doesn't have access to one.

Reply by LynnNC on 6/14/06 12:06pm
Msg #125902

I am technoloy-challenged, so I don't understand how you use a printer in your car. Even if you have a laptop, how would you get a wireless connection? Or, do you not need a wireless connection to use a printer with a laptop?

Reply by GWest on 6/14/06 12:13pm
Msg #125904

I am trying to complete my mobile office and only need a portable printer. I have not been able to find one small enough for travel. I carry a portable scanner (HP Scanjet 4670) and laptop but cannot print. I just scan what is needed and print when I get home.
What printer do you use?

Reply by Becca_FL on 6/14/06 12:33pm
Msg #125909

GWest

I use an HP 1320 in my vehicle. It is compact and fast.

Reply by janCA on 6/14/06 12:36pm
Msg #125910

This printer is small enough I can carry it into the borrower's home. Hook up and copy. I'm still WAITING for my husband to hook up my other printer in my car for actual printing of docs. Have everything ready but he has to find the time to hook it all up properly to the extra battery, which he already has installed, and the inverter . I'm also waiting for clearwire to cover a few more areas that I need covered in order for me to do mobile printing in those areas.

Reply by PA_Notary_II on 6/14/06 12:32pm
Msg #125908

I always tell the BO that regardless of how they're accustomed to signing their name, the lender requires that they sign as their name appears in title so that the names on the mortgage match the names on the deed. I have never had a BO refuse after this explanation.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/15/06 2:15am
Msg #126124

Grace, I don't believe we, as notaries, should be supplying any documents for the borrowers to sign, at least in Calfornia, at minimum.

From the CA notary Handbook:
"Among the acts which constitute the practice of law are the preparation, drafting, or selection or determination of the kind of any legal document, or giving advice with relation to any legal document or matters."

I just wouldn't go there. I'll admit, though, that this is a dicey area. I've talked to attorneys about this issue who seem to be in disagreement with what most lenders and tc people tell us. If we have them sign differently from their customary signature and the doc ends up in court, one attorney told me that's the first thing he would go after - and the case would be tossed out.

Conversely, I *have* had a situation where a borrower who refused to sign as instructed ended up having to re-sign the entire package the next day. Fortunately, I had her sign a handwritten note confirming that I had instructed her otherwise. (She refused to include her middle initial and had neat enough handwriting to make it obvious. BTW, this is not the same as adding a doc to the package.)

Reply by Wendy Pablico on 6/14/06 3:02pm
Msg #125936

I hope this will help your question I found in NNA's news articles I went back for the link couldn't find it.

Notary can significantly reduce the risk of letting a potential ID thief slip through the cracks in the system with a few basic steps. Here are some examples.

Never accept a birth certificate as identification.
One of the primary misconceptions among signers, businesses and even some Notaries, is that a birth certificate is a valid form of identification.

Not only do birth certificates lack the crucial elements needed for any ID presented before a Notary — a photograph, signature and current description of the signer — in several states, strangers can easily request a copy of a person’s birth certificate.

Never accept a photocopy of an identification document.
Occasionally, a signer will present a Notary with a photocopy of a driver's license, passport or other photo ID. If the signer cannot provide the original ID

the notarization must be refused. The photocopied ID may have been illicitly copied and could be used to commit a crime.

Personal appearance is crucial.
Without personal appearance by the signer, even legitimate identification is useless. A person presenting another individual’s identification and claiming to represent them should be carefully scrutinized by the Notary.

If the person lacks power of attorney status or fails to meet the requirements for a proof of execution by subscribing witness, the notarization should be refused.

Watch for discrepancies between a signature and ID.
In some situations, a signer's name may differ from an identification document because of marriage or other legal name change. It's also possible the person is an identity thief trying to use a similarity in names to commit fraud.

Notaries should always remember the "less, not more" rule to judge whether a signature is acceptable.

For example, if a person's ID reads, "John Jacob Smith," but the signature on the document reads "J.J. Smith" it is acceptable to notarize.

However, if the signature on the document reads "Mary Jane Smith," but the ID reads, "M. Smith," the notarization should be refused.

If the Notary is in doubt, ask the signer to provide secondary identification to confirm identity.

Do not accept a temporary license.
When people renew driver's licenses, it is customary for motor vehicle departments to issue a temporary license for the interim period between the old license expiring and the new one being issued.

These temporary licenses are not acceptable as ID for purposes of notarization. In some states, a temporary license is simply a computer printout with no photograph or signature.

While the state of California does include a photo on temporary licenses, the state's Notary Public Section has stated that temporary licenses are not acceptable ID for notarization

By following these steps, a Notary not only safeguards signers from identity theft, he or she also exercises reasonable care to protect against liability. The Notary who makes an extra effort to screen ID shuts the door of opportunity firmly in the face of the would-be identity thief.

Reply by Mike Photon on 6/14/06 5:16pm
Msg #125955

Thank you Wendy for the perfectly clear explanation. Very Very Useful.

Reply by Wendy Pablico on 6/14/06 6:18pm
Msg #125980

Re: Signature Question! Thank You Mike!!

You're so very welcome!! when I found it I was happy I was surfing around. I also found out yesterday on the acknowledgment/jurat and and any forms the say

on_________before me, Wendy Pablico, "a notary public, " in CA we have now to be spelled out the title out as of 2/06 sign into law.

I want to say I learned so much from reading the posts and when I saw this post. I remembered the article. I wanted to wait until I finished the process in becoming a notary before I join the website.

I was hoping it will help her and the board...I've taking many notes from here and I really wanted to give something back to the board.

Thank you Mile

Reply by Pamela on 6/14/06 8:34pm
Msg #126067

Re: Signature Question! THANKS EVERYONE!

Thanks to All!

Everyone has been so Very helpful!

Pam

Reply by Wendy Pablico on 6/14/06 10:21pm
Msg #126103

THANKS EVERYONE! You're very welcome!! ;-D n/m