Posted by BrendaTx on 6/10/06 9:03am
Msg #125101

Texas Notaries Don't Forget...

TEXAS SOS RULES STATE:

The basic rules are: the act of taking and certifying acknowledgments cannot be performed by a notary public financially or beneficially interested in the transaction; and one who is a party to an instrument, cannot act as a notary public.

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Can the Texas notary be paid 1/2 if the loan does not close at the table? I don't think so.

However, IF the hiring entity will agree to pay me, I won't hold them hostage over it. I'll cut my fee to a very reasonable amount on it, especially if I get the second one.

I have never charged full fee for a redraw, but sometimes a title company and signing service is so short-sighted they forget that good, experienced notaries know how to work with them.

I am a very reasonable person...I just don't get myself in a commission bind.

Something recently happened that made me feel I needed to post this for posterity.

Think about it, folks.

Reply by Zana Darrow on 6/10/06 9:16am
Msg #125103

Are you refering to trip fees and print fees? Usually I get calls that say 1."can you go to x town" 2. "witness a loan signing?" amd 3. "Receive edoc". 1&3 are asking me to incur expenses and time which are separate from notorial acts. I do not charge for witnessing ($.50 in WI). Whether they sign or not, for whatever reason, is a separate thing. I am there with a lot of doc's that do not require a notary other than for identification purposes.
Maybe I am missing something.....

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/10/06 10:14am
Msg #125112

Re: Texas Notaries Don't Forget...Interesting, Zana...

I knew if I posted this I might get some input that would help.

I like your spin, but as many notarial acts as we have to do in Texas (15 at $6 each, 20 not unusual these days) where do you draw the line.

Anyone else?

Reply by Stamper_WI on 6/10/06 11:29am
Msg #125118

Re: Texas Notaries Don't Forget...Interesting, Zana...

The line is where the public interest ends and yours begins. A risk to your commission, bottom line , is a risk to the public interest. The chain of title interests affects those future owners of a property as well as the current. Those doc's that aren't notarized affect the borrower. Those that are , are filed as part of a public record or as a condition of title insurance or clear title.

Impatiality in our situation is hard to define. I look at it as simply as I can in order to separate the issues that are at play.

I am a public servant first. If something isn't right with identification or the signers seem to be under duress, incompetant, or iunable to understand what they are signing, I will not notarize. That has value to the lenders. That is why they call us.
I also have an interest in time and money I have spent in handling the documents, my experience with loan doc's and cost of transportation, supplies, equipment etc. If for some reason I cannot perform the notorial act, I still expect to be paid for my time and expenses. These capabilities also has value to the lenders. That is why they call us.

If our services as signing agents were not necessary, these borrowers would be sent to find their own notary. And some are sent off to do just that! That usually involves them out on a hunt (WI does not have a find a notary feature on their SOS site). That means going to a bank or other business that has a notary. In these cases, the borrower is pretty much on their own in getting all required signitures and notarizations and getting the paperwork back to the right place.

Then there is the issue of knowing your Notary. Personally I would rather deal with one I know follows proper, ethical proceedure. In WI, just about anyone can be a notary. I have met many, at the signing table, that have never performed a notorial act. Wonder how diligent they are on Id'ing the signer? Or even understand the repucussions of mishandling the doc's? To them, to the borrowers and to the public interest.

Well dang! I am describing some kind of identity ninja out to save the integrity of identity theives and other fraudulant characters!

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/10/06 11:38am
Msg #125120

Re: Texas Notaries Don't Forget...Interesting, Zana...

I appreciate your input, but no matter how I slice it, when I act as a signing agent, I must be impartial and I must be a notary public first. A signing agent is also a notary public. There's no SA with the NP. The SA is me, and the SA has a dog in the race.

I think people can determine how they will run their business from both sides of this coin.

I guess we are in disagreement on this one, but it is okay to agree to disagree.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/10/06 11:39am
Msg #125121

correction of the above - There's no SA WITHOUT the NP n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/10/06 1:04pm
Msg #125134

Re: correction of the above - There's no SA WITHOUT the NP

Here's another blurb from Texas Notary Educational Materials which I think is pertinent.


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The primary duty of a Notary Public is to show that a disinterested party (the Notary Public) has duly notified the signer of an instrument as to the importance of such document, and the signer of such document has declared that the signer's identity, signature, and reasons for signing such instrument are genuine. The signature and seal of a Notary Public do not prove these facts conclusively, but provide prima facie proof of them, and allow persons in trade and commerce to rely upon the truth and veracity of the Notary Public as a third party who has no personal interest in the transaction.

>>>>>>>>A Notary Public is personally liable for negligence or fraud in the performance of the duties of the office.<<<<<<<<<<<< The bond is to insure that the person injured can recover at least $10,000.00, but this does not protect the Notary Public from personal liability for the full extent of damages caused by a breach of official duty. In addition to civil liability, Notaries Public may be subject to criminal prosecution and the revocation or suspension of their notary public commission by the Secretary of State's office.

Reply by Ndwa on 6/11/06 4:29am
Msg #125215

Re: correction of the above - There's no SA WITHOUT the NP

you're a signing Doctor, Phd NP. You have an office, but prefer house calls b/c that's how you get to make the big bucks.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 6/10/06 1:30pm
Msg #125137

Re: Texas Notaries Don't Forget...Interesting, Zana...

I agree to disagree LOL! Like I said, I do not charge for notorial acts. I charge for my expenses whether the loan closes or not. I do not do notorial acts without proper proceedures in place. I also do not try to "sell" the loan at the table or give advice. I stay neutral and wait for the borrower to talk to the LO. If the borrower asks for advice I refer them back to their LO or Title Co. Maintaining impartiality is crucial and at the forefront. If there was a conflict between being SA & NP, there would be a requirement to have one of each at all signings.

This is why I am such an advocate notorial education requirements.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/10/06 1:33pm
Msg #125138

Re: Texas Notaries Don't Forget...Interesting, Zana...

**Maintaining impartiality is crucial and at the forefront. If there was a conflict between being SA & NP, there would be a requirement to have one of each at all signings.**

That's another way to look at it.

You and I have talked before about getting the dirt off the forum and I think this is one of those good topics to consider. Thank you very much for your valuable input.

Like I said before, I can accept a trip fee on the "backside" to make a client happier with me, but I cannot feel okay about the other way around.

You're okay in my book, Stamper, with the beautiful and exotic name.

BrendaTx

Reply by Stamper_WI on 6/10/06 3:30pm
Msg #125145

Re: Texas Notaries Don't Forget...Interesting, Zana...

Full fee for full service. Or fee for service. Everyone in business for themselves should have a break down on what the cost of doing business is plus the value of what they do. If you don't have signed doc's the service was not fully performed and your fee should reflect that. Not what potential signing you may or may have not have had in that time frame. We have no control over the quality of work preceeding our part of a loan signing. Its a variable we assign to the cost of doing business. It shows up as a loss on our taxes at times. Sometimes thats a good thing both financially and educationally.

I am told my name has many meanings and variations. Imagine my chagrin when the San Francisco Chronicle had an article about Zana the Russian wild woman in the 60's when I was a young teen. Took a lot of flack for that! Like how did I get rid of all the body hair!

Thank you for your kind words and spirited debate!