Posted by E_FL on 6/7/06 2:44pm
Msg #124583

WIVE'S SIGNATURE

I'm doing a closing tonight where the husband is the only borrower. Besides Mortgage & Right to cancel, is the wife also supposed to sign the Payoff Statement?

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 6/7/06 2:51pm
Msg #124587

Your best bet is always to ask the company that hired you about which docs they want signed by a non-borrowing spouse. Most companies include a sheet that specifies which docs they want signed by a NBS.

If no instructions are forthcoming, then I have the NBS sign the Mortgage, TIL, RTC and, if it's a Countrywide Loan, the Arbitration Agreement.

ALWAYS try to get specific instructions from the company that hired you and write down who you spoke with and their instructions.

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 6/7/06 2:55pm
Msg #124588

Re: WIFE'S SIGNATURE (correcting my own spelling) n/m

Reply by E_FL on 6/7/06 2:58pm
Msg #124590

Re: WIFE'S SIGNATURE (correcting my own spelling)

thanks for the spell check!

Reply by NCLisa on 6/7/06 6:19pm
Msg #124636

They also should sign the owners affidavit and the errors and ommissions compliance agreement and/or the correction agreement poa.

Some companies are great about having their names on the signature lines of the docs they are supposed to sign, others don't have anyones name on any sig line.

Reply by PAW on 6/7/06 8:28pm
Msg #124665

Name not typed on docs ...

Barring any other direction by the hiring company, lender or title company, only have the persons whose names appear on the documents sign those documents. Typically, a NOBS needs to minimally sign the mortgage/DOT (and riders), RTC and TIL. But there are times when a NOBS signs nothing.

Sometimes, lenders and title what other documents signed, sometimes not. But, unless specifically directed, do not have someone sign a document unless their name already appears on that document. (To do otherwise may be construed as UPL.) You may not know all the circumstances of the signing, so don't guess.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/7/06 8:30pm
Msg #124666

Just be aware that the UPL counsel to the Florida Bar considers it UPL if we advise someone to sign who is not listed on the signature line.
That is why I always call the title company first, and some companies want the spouse to sign more than the RTC,Mortgage and TIL.
If I can't get a hold of the title company to get the authorization to get the non-Obligator spouse to sign, then I don't get the signature.
It is not our error if the spouse is not listed on the signature line.

Reply by Poppy on 6/7/06 10:10pm
Msg #124678

Good advice Paw and Sylvia... I'd not looked at it that way before... Thanks!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/7/06 10:29pm
Msg #124689

Re: WIFE'S SIGNATURE

Another thing to consider. You go to do a signing, spouse's name is not on signature line. You believe the spouse should be signing the "legals" so you have him/her sign. Then it turns out spouse was not supposed to sign. You have to go do a resign at your own expense because you screwed up.

You don't get spouse's signature and spouse should have signed. You go do a resign and you have to get paid again, because it was not your error. They didn't put spouse on signature line, you couldn't get a hold of title to verify, so you followed directions and only had the one spouse sign. You did your job

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 6/7/06 11:15pm
Msg #124698

Several Issues

I am certainly not advocating committing UPL, but
I have seen instructions to have NBS sign
"legals" even if their name does on appear on dox
Further an additional signature , even if unneeded, would
not ,IMHO, void a doc (other than an "obligation" doc such
as note, loan agreement or 1003.
A sig on TIL or RTC really only constitues a receipt acknowledging that
a person has recd the doc.
As I understand it the TIL , RTC and
MTG/DOT would still be valid even if they were signed by the
Fuller Brush Man who happened to be there. (Note , if you don't know
who that is ask your parents or grandparents)
A ? , of course, would be raised by title co as to why a stranger to title
was signing mtg.
As I see it, if you know from experience that you are in a
"spousal " state, parties are maried , PIQ is their primary residence ,
AND you are not able to reach anyone, there is little harm in having NBS
sign "legals" . Put a note w/dox explaining circumstances.

Reply by PAW on 6/8/06 6:59am
Msg #124727

Re: Several Issues - Clouded title

By having a person with NO ownership rights to a property, sign the mortgage (a recordable document) could create havoc later when doing a title search to perfect the title. The name/signature could create an implied sense of ownership that would ultimately have to be confirmed or proven wrong. This could also create a major roadblock when a lender tries to sell the mortgage on the secondary market.

So, even if you are in a "spousal" state (such as FL, a homestead protection state), PIQ is their primary residence AND homestead has been filed, and you can't reach anyone, chances are the NOBS would need to sign. However, it is not up to the NSA to determine if the property is their primary residence AND homestead. Further, it the NOBS has executed a Waiver of Homestead, the NSA, and probably the processors at the lender and title, may not be aware of it either.

The FL Bar UPL Department has already charged and the Supreme Court has already convicted non-attorneys who have people sign documents without specific direction to do so. When the Florida Bar finds that an individual is guilty of the unauthorized practice of law, an injunction is usually issued against that individual. If the person persists in the UPL misconduct, a contempt violation is issued and six months of jail can be expected. Many other states have similar procedures and penalties.

The unlicensed practice of law, in its simplest terms, is when someone who is not licensed or otherwise authorized to practice law in Florida practices law. In determining whether the giving advice and counsel and the performance of services in legal matters constitute the practice of law, it is safe to follow the rule that if giving such advice and performance of services affect important rights of a person under the law, and if the reasonable protection of the rights and property of those advised and served requires that the persons giving such advice possess legal skill and knowledge of the law greater than that possessed by the average citizen, then the giving of such advice and performance of services by one for another constitutes the practice of law.

By having a NOBS sign the mortgage, you may be providing guidance affecting the rights of the actual owners as well as the non-owner of the property.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 6/7/06 11:33pm
Msg #124702

With all due respect to all previous posts....

Are we not talking about a "Payoff Statement" as indicated in the original post? That question can only be answered by the lender. If you're uncertain, call the title company/settlement agent for direction if you're unsure.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 6/8/06 12:01am
Msg #124708

Good catch TG, teach me to post late after a long day. We...

kind of got bt (beyond topic) , but my opinion stands as to a
"Payoff statement" which would
generally mean either a statement from the old (existing) lender
as to the amount necessary to payoff their loan, or in some
cases, a close out letter for an existing HELOC.
If both spouses were on old loan , both should sign.
Try to get direction from title /settlment co, but if you can't reach
someone, extra , unneeded sigs would not hurt on this doc.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 6/8/06 12:16am
Msg #124711

I agree! Just thought the thing meandered too far

away from the situation. Too much, in this case might not be "too much".

For what it is worth, Bob, I am now occupying an escrow office and listen to twittering, jabbering, complaining, and much educational gossip, all day long, from those escrow ladies in California. Forgive me if I ever sound like something I'm not. I've learned waaaaaaay too much in the last 30 days, more than I ever wanted!

Reply by PAW on 6/8/06 7:13am
Msg #124729

Not necessarily

>>> If both spouses were on old loan , both should sign. <<<

Agreed as to the payoff statement. But for clarity and taking this a bit further ...

Not too often, but occasionally, I've run into situations where both spouses were on the original mortgage being refinanced. The new mortgage is being executed by only one spouse due to (1) pending divorce agreements; (2) purchase of new primary home, keeping this one as a second home which does not qualify for homestead; and (3) purchasing a new primary home and keeping their current home as investment property.

Again, I must emphatically state that an NSA should not assume to add anyone to any document for any reason, unless specifically directed. (Though I fully agree that unneeded signatures on a Payoff statement should not cause any difficulty.)