Posted by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 6/21/06 11:43am
Msg #127245

continuation of Titlegals post below....

I thought this worthy enough to start a new thread so this does not get lost in the shuffle below....I for one know someone who was killed in Iraq..his name was Kevin J. Smith - nickname KJ. He was engaged to be married and was killed about 4 months ago (approximate)...Just recently, Chuck Williams from my church went over to Iraq as a chaplain and he recently sent an email to all of us regarding a recent situation that occured...I figured by posting this, it will serve 2 purposes..one to extend the prayer chain for Chuck and all of the others serving and dying for our country and to also give everyone a human perspective on what is going on. Please read the below email from my personal friend and part of my church family....


Dear Fellow Believers
 
            
This is chaplain Chuck Williams from
Iraq. It is with a very
heavy heart that I inform you of the death of one of our soldiers, Benjamin James Slaven, age 22. Ben was the gunner in the lead vehicle of one of our convoy escort teams. On the evening of 9 June, 2006 his vehicle was struck by a large IED (Improvised Explosive Device). Ben was killed instantly. Even though his comrades initially tried to do what they could, it was obvious that he was gone. One other person in his truck suffered some minor shrapnel wound. However, everyone in the convoy will carry in themselves wounds to their hearts that time will not erase. He was our first, and it hurts something fierce.            I remember engaging with Ben several times in the staging area. He was a fine young man with a pleasant and respectful nature. His Sergeant can’t remember Ben ever complaining.
He was a lighthearted individual who was most known for making stupid animal sounds that were effective in breaking the daily irritation and frustration that we all would experience working in the staging area for several hours in the oppressive heat of Iraq in the Summer. The respect and admiration his peers had for him was most evident when we broke the news to the rest of his unit early the next morning. To say that there wasn’t a dry eye would be an understatement.             I was grateful and honored to be present at the hospital with Ben’s command team when he was brought in. At one point that evening we all gathered around his body and prayed. We thanked the Lord for the privilege of knowing this man, what he meant to us, and what he did for us. We asked the Lord for the abundance of His grace and mercy to be poured out on him as He has done for all of us. We also asked for the Lord to make His presence known to all of us who were hurting. And lastly, that the Lord would cause the power of His love and comfort to be with Ben’s parents in extraordinary measure as they were about to receive the worst news of their lives.  Ben was from Nebraska. He was a single man with no children. And although Ben never had the gift of being a husband or father, he nonetheless demonstrated to us all courage, devotion and sacrifice. Ben will be awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Iraq Service Ribbon and the Combat Action Badge.I would ask that you continue to pray for Ben’s family. And please pray for us as we must carry on our missions with a unit ever capable but now incomplete. In particular, please pray for his two commanders (battalion
level: LTC Allen Kiefer and company level: CPT Carlos Esparra). They are taking this very hard as they have the burden of command and responsibility for every one of our soldiers. They could also use your encouragement. If you choose to write them, please send the letters to me and I will forward them. Thank you for praying for us and please continue to do so. Thank you for your support. It really does mean an awful lot to these soldiers.May the Lord’s Grace and Peace be Abundant with All of You.
 Yours in the Cause of
Christ,
 Chuck Williams
   

Reply by Laura Upton on 6/21/06 11:59am
Msg #127248

If you have an address to write them, i would gladly write. email me. thanks for sharing. it is very real what is going on over there in the sandbox. everyday our men and women fight to survive, to live and to come home. regardless of how anyone feels about the war; we all still need to band together and support the troops. God Bless and thanks for sharing, Laura

Reply by Jahari Davis on 6/21/06 12:02pm
Msg #127252

I think its safe to say we all love our country. We would all fight for it. And we'd all die for it because we believe in the promise it makes.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/21/06 4:15pm
Msg #127342

I think it's safe to say that you don't know what you're talking about. It's a nice platitide, but I'm quite sure not all of us are willing to fight for and die for our country. I sure as hell ain't gonna go to war. Some people are a little more concerned about their own families than rabid patriotism.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 6/21/06 9:37pm
Msg #127415

As always, Calinotary says the truth, you don't know what you are talking about, but that's because you are stupid, Jahari, not because it's a platitude.

However, rabid patriotism does have it's place. We are so used to it, that it's a given. Cali wouldn't have the same freedom of anything (just like the rest of us) without the sacrifice of **patriotism** Rabid?? (Eyes rolling into the next room)....Puleeze.

I'm getting of the soap box for a few, but it won't last long.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/21/06 9:58pm
Msg #127424

OK... wait a second!

You've done your share of running your mouth off... you could at least refrain from insulting those in the armed forces that are willing to protect that right...

Rabid Patriotism??? You think they don't care about their families? You're wrong... they care about family and freedom... and they aren't rabid patriots... they are men. Maybe they joined for opportunity... maybe they joined because they wanted to see the world... maybe they joined because their fathers did... maybe simply because they love their country and wanted to give something back. Whatever the reason... they have a job to do... and they do it without complaining.

My husband served in both the Navy and the Army and is still an Electronics Engineering contractor for the Army. He was on the ground in Desert Storm repairing or destroying stranded communications equipment. My cousin Andy is a Blackhawk Helicopter pilot in Iraq right now.... do you know the life expectancy of these guys? He knows it... we know it... but he loves his job and he's good at it. My husband and I know 43 men currently serving in Iraq. We have known many that have returned wounded or will not return at all. They all care about their families... and none of them are rabid patriots.

And Jahari... you are totally full of crap. I don't believe for one second that you would EVER put your money where your mouth is. 'Platitudes' is right!

Reply by TitleGalCA on 6/21/06 10:04pm
Msg #127425

Bless You Angie

I got a bit sidetracked with calling a spade a spade. Now, I'm quite happy I did.

I deal much better with the relaxed attitude of Calinotary who takes things for granted than the idiocy of Jahari. Taking things for granted...we're all guilty of that. Socialism and justifing these dead young Hero's? No flippin way.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/21/06 10:12pm
Msg #127426

I don't do anything...

***I deal much better with the relaxed attitude of Calinotary who takes things for granted than the idiocy of Jahari.***

I can't deal with that idiocy at all. I had to severly edit the part of my post that was to him because NR kept censoring it!

Reply by Jahari Davis on 6/21/06 11:14pm
Msg #127453

Re: OK... wait a second!

Right out of the conservative playbook. A person tries to take the high road and its always the crabby conservatives that resort to the grandstanding oneupmanship. I find it interesting that Cali says he "ain't going to war", yet he's all gung-ho for it. TG calls me stupid yet I've proven myself to be anything but, and Angelina says I'm full of crap based on facts and sources I give you on a silver platter to verify for yourself? You three have no idea who I am or what I am capable of. For all you know I could be Superman and/or Sgt. Rock. Who the hell are you three to judge me? None of you know who I am to judge me. You dont know what I can and cannot do. You dont know what I know or have the experiences I have so what makes you think you are qualified worth a good g*ddamn to say who or what I am? You cant play this up is down and black is white bizzaro game with me and I know it just eats you up that you cant. You three need some serious Republican Rehab to get out of this abusive relationship with that party.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 6/21/06 11:17pm
Msg #127456

Re: OK... wait a second!

***Tg calls me stupid yet I've proven myself to be anyting but***

Like I said before, please see a mental health professional. Nothing you've said proves anything, other than to garner sympathy for you. I still wish you well when you become mature and healthy in your opinions; Youth can be excusable. Stupidity is not.

Reply by Jahari Davis on 6/21/06 11:27pm
Msg #127460

Re: OK... wait a second!

TG, at least I have numerous sources and evidence to back up my claims. Now I'm not calling you stupid but you'd have to be to engage in a debate with no facts and figures of your own to counter another's points.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 6/21/06 11:30pm
Msg #127461

Re: OK... wait a second!

***Yet I've proven mysef to be anything but***

No you haven't. If you THINK you have, go back to the begining and re-read.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/21/06 11:54pm
Msg #127480

Re: OK... wait a second!

You are the one who is trying to play on party lines for your own reasons. You are right... I don't know who you are and what you are capable of... but I know what you saaayyyyyy... and it's a bunch of babble. And grandstanding??? You NEVER shut up! You don't have a bunch of facts... you just babble on and on in circles. At some point you have to be RESPONSIBLE for the DELIVERY OF THE INFORMATION and darlin'... your Fedex truck is broken!

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/22/06 3:20am
Msg #127499

Re: OK... wait a second!

"I find it interesting that Cali says he "ain't going to war", yet he's all gung-ho for it."

I am? I'd love for you to show me the post where I even vaguely implied this. If you're going to make up shit to prove your point, it just shows that you have no point.

Look up any poliitcal thread on this board. Odds are very very good that I'll be nowhere to be found in any of them, and that's not just coincidence.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/22/06 3:27am
Msg #127500

Maybe I wasn't clear

I wasn't referring to the people in the armed forces when I said "rabid patriotism", I was talking about people who say stupid shit like "any one of us would be willing to die for our country". When we all know that isn't remotely true. They're the same people who are still horrified by and b*tching about the Dixie Chicks.

I have a friend who I just reestablished contact with after about 4 or 5 years. I found out that he recently got back from Iraq to recover from an injury he recieved from an IED. And he recently found out that the Sgt that replaced him was killed in an explosion about 2 weeks ago. So while it's hardly personal for me, it's not exactly completely theoretical for me either.

Reply by Jahari Davis on 6/22/06 8:02am
Msg #127519

Re: Maybe I wasn't clear

Yawwwwnnnnnn....

I'm glad your friend made it back. Whenever you look at your friend, look at his wounds, service, his dedication to it and the Sgt. that replaced him and remember two things:

This man had more courage to do what you couldn't have in your pinky toe.
That you supported this mailroom president that sent him to where he was injured by an IED and the Sgt. died based on lies that have been proven repeatedly. Did they serve their country proudly, yes the sure did. However they were used.

If Iraq were a just cause, I'd be all over it. If we went into Sudan, I'd be all over it. If we ramped up our forces in Afganistan and actually wanted Osama, Mullah Omar, and Ayman Al-Zawahiri, I'd be all over that, but we arent doing any of those things. The mailboy needs his bad guys to make him look like a Wartime mailboy.

Remember this. Saddam was contained in the 90's and we had inspections for 8 years and found nothing. He was strapped with UN sanctions for 12 years. He had no fly zones to contend with and routine air patrols and targeted strikes to deal with. All we needed to do was to wait for him violate himself and he had some hot s**t coming his way.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 6/22/06 11:21am
Msg #127582

aaaaaaarrrrgggggggghhh!

What do you know about being used? The ones that WANT to be there aren't being used... the ones that don't... well Vietnam taught us all that if you join... you just may go somewhere you don't want to. They aren't stupid... they made a decision and they do what they came to do... with pride and honor. I didn't see a draft notice in the mail!

Sometimes I wish life were as simple as 'the perfect cause' so that I could walk 'gung ho' through life knowing that someday my sainthood was secured. Maybe this situation isn't perfect and maybe something should be done about it... but you could learn a thing or two from these guys about TEAMWORK. You are part of the problem when you start ripping something to shreds from the inside.

Let me give you a real example (from your side so you might understand)... Remember the Clinton vs. Monica Lewinski thing? The military guys were soooo pissed (democrat and republican alike) that the American people and the media were dragging him through the dirt. Most didn't vote for him... most didn't like him... but guess what... he was the LEADER of the country and to them, that position demands respect. They go to these countries and they see that the leaders walk around with machine guns in their hands and they KNOW that POWER is a tangible thing. If you mock, ridicule and publicly cut the balls off your leader... where will you be?

You can disagree with the issue without trying to disgrace and ridicule the PERSON. To a country like Iraq, the LEADER represents EVERYTHING. This is the part of your rhetoric that gets to me... not that we don't agree... WHICH WE DON'T... but you have a right to your babble. I disagree with your method. You have no respect!

There are those like you on both sides and they are ALL part of the problem. Loudly parading their smear campaigns and political agendas and caring not for the destructive battle they wage!

Reply by Jahari Davis on 6/22/06 12:29pm
Msg #127599

Re: aaaaaaarrrrgggggggghhh!

Your right. I have no respect...for this president and this administration of incompetant fools. He has done nothing worthy of earning my respect and neither have they.

Reply by Jahari Davis on 6/21/06 10:59pm
Msg #127445

Smells like Dick Cheney...

Cali. Stop talking. Stop typing. Stop...period. I know all too well what I'm talking about. There isnt a person that lives in this country that wouldnt fight for it and die for it. Hell, illegals are willing to die for it. I love my country and I'd die defending it. I know its history. I know its people and I know its heart. So you can label my words any way you want to, they will not change. You still look like an ass though when you take something like what I said in my previous post in this thread and try to rip it for your own gain.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 6/21/06 11:13pm
Msg #127452

Re: Smells like Dick Cheney...

***Hell, illegals are willing to die for it***

My God. Let that statement sit...with all it's social implications.

Jahari, please go see a mental health professional. You are so delusional, it is difficult to reason with you in a normal, logical and reasonable way. There are many therapies available, and I hope you get what you need.

Reply by Jahari Davis on 6/21/06 11:23pm
Msg #127458

Re: Smells like Dick Cheney...

LOL!!!!!! And you call me delusional. TG...take the red pill already. What have these people done for you? What has this party done for you? What is in it for you? What are you getting out of supporting these guys other than the ability to say we stole...I mean won another one? Its like you've been brainwashed by Republican KGB or something. The programming is that damn tight.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 6/21/06 12:16pm
Msg #127256

Thanks Laura....I have an email into my church to get Chuck email address so I can forward an email as well. I will be glad to pass it on once I get it. These men and woman need to know that regardless of our political views, they have a whole country of people praying for them. I could not even imagine how emotionally scarring this can be on them and they need to know that they will come home to open arms....

Reply by John_NorCal on 6/21/06 12:32pm
Msg #127266

"I could not even imagine how emotionally scarring this can be on them and they need to know that they will come home to open arms...."

You are so right. Please send that email address or post it for all.
Thanks..

Reply by cyndi_ca on 6/21/06 12:39pm
Msg #127269

Yes, Sherry please post email addy

Our Soldiers new our support and prayers. The liberal media does not help. There is so much good being done there that we never hear about. Unfortunately there are many terrible things that happen there everyday. The soldiers need to hear we care about them and that we a grateful for all the do for us.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 6/21/06 1:21pm
Msg #127289

Unlike Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Peale, Wolfowitz, etc..

I actually served two years on active duty as a military officer.
As such I received extensive training. Among the things that
I learned was to never put my troops into harms way without
a clearly thought out plan as to their mission, giving my troops,
the necessary equipment and personnel to accomplish the mission at
minimum risk, and obtaining the best intelligence available as
to what they would encounter on the ground.
My heart bleeds for these poor boys and their families. They deserved better from
their leaders.
Our Nation's system is properly based on civillian control of the military.
The civillian leaders, especially when they are rank amatures, are
expected, however , to defer to the judgement of
professional military leaders as to the conduct of military operations.
This clearly was not done in the case of this illconceived and poorly planned
invasion .
Colin Powell, the only military professional at the top level of
this administration, did not resign because he wanted to work on
his golf game.
God bless our troops. We should all pray that they come
home safely as soon as possible.

Reply by Jahari Davis on 6/21/06 2:03pm
Msg #127309

Re: Unlike Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Peale, Wolfowitz, etc..

Very well put Bob. I echo your statement. Thanks.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 6/21/06 2:46pm
Msg #127322

Re: Unlike Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Peale, Wolfowitz, etc..

Bob said: "Colin Powell, the only military professional at the top level of
this administration, did not resign because he wanted to work on
his golf game"

Ditto!

Reply by John_NorCal on 6/21/06 3:00pm
Msg #127327

Agree 100% with Bob. Thank you n/m

Reply by Brenda_CO on 6/21/06 3:46pm
Msg #127338

Totally agree with you Bob!

As well as Jahari's earlier message!!

Reply by LawrenceOK on 6/21/06 4:01pm
Msg #127340

Re: Unlike Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Peale, Wolfowitz, etc..

Colin Powell resigned because of the political bureaucratic BS that way to many times hampers our troops in the line, and ON the line of duty. Let our military leaders do their jobs and our boys would be home in no time. jmo
USMC 1969-1974

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/24/06 3:00am
Msg #127927

Link to a balanced historical account of war in Iraq...

I hate to say it, but except for the original post, this was one of the few comments in this thread that made much sense to me. Regardless of which "side" of the issue any of us are on, it is so easy to get caught up in emotions when lives are at stake that we tend to filter information by what we want to believe.

A couple of days ago, PBS broadcast an edition of Frontline that did a great analysis of how we ended up going to war in Iraq. It appeared to me to be an unbiased, factual attempt to detail the events post 9/11 that led to our going to war with Iraq, although I'm obviously not above my own biases. For anyone truly interested in learning for about the situation, I highly recommend this program. Most of it is told first person by individuals who were involved in some aspect of the process. Here is a link to watch the full program online: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/. Just a warning... it's about 1.5 hrs. long.