Posted by Drakester on 3/30/06 2:35pm
Msg #109824

A thought on fees

I hear so much in here about how much or how little SA's are charging around the country.
If someone come in and say eg. "I charged $50.00 for a signing that person is slamed, slapped and smacked. Would it be a thought for all signing agents signed up with Notary Rotary to come to an agreement of how much to charge. "And stick to it" And maybe , just maybe, we could control the market rather then the SS or the TC

Just a thought
Your opinions on this would be most appreciated

And please if it is not a good idea I do not need to be Slamed slapped and smacked it is just a thought

Reply by Sign/SealCO on 3/30/06 2:39pm
Msg #109826

Re: set fees=price fixing.NM n/m

Reply by Roger_OH on 3/30/06 2:49pm
Msg #109829

Re: set fees=price fixing.NM

Not a good idea, as it does smack of price-fixing. Moreover, each of us is an independent businessperson who sets their own fees based upon their experience, expertise, and what they determine their area market/competititive situation will bear. So long as the NNA notary mill and their ilk keep grinding out hundreds of newbies with $ signs in their eyes, there will always be those that will take the $50 signings (or less) and think they scored big time just by getting ANY signing. By the time those folks figure out that $50 is NOT the big money they were led to believe, NNA will have cranked out several hundred more graduates, and the cycle continues ad infinitum. You can only worry about what YOU can control, and in most cases, the cream will eventually rise to the top. Stick to your guns.

Reply by Drakester on 3/30/06 2:50pm
Msg #109830

Re: set fees=price fixing.NM

ok dumb Idea but it was a thought, there should ba a way to somewhat regulate this within the electrical plumbing and many other construction idustries there is a rule of thumb. Where the contracor or sub-contractor charges x number of dollars per hr. and the variance is very minimal from one contractor to the next. Many proffessionals have a similar range, Why should notaries SA's be any differant

Reply by Genkichan on 3/30/06 3:12pm
Msg #109838

Re: set fees=price fixing.NM

You can figure out that information by reading all the messages on this board and coming to your own conclusions.

Reply by Cherilyn_CO on 3/30/06 3:12pm
Msg #109841

I completely disagree with this...

Contractors and Sub-Contractors have the exact same problems we do. My husband is a Stucco Contractor and has had his own business for 10 years. He always gets under bid by thousands of dollars by fly-by-night companies. He also has to go out and fix unprofessional jobs. There is no standard that they go by. If there was, there would ALWAYS be someone willing to go lower-guaranteed!

The point is that it's a free country and people can do and charge what they want. We may not like it, but that's the way it is.

Reply by Drakester on 3/30/06 3:25pm
Msg #109846

Re: I completely disagree with this...

you are right not a standard for contractors but more of an average and the average is a far cry from a variance of $50 to $150 for the exact same job

I just sold a 15 year old construction company and on a job of $100,000 I may win or lose a job by 3-8 points no 66 points

Reply by NJ_Notary on 3/30/06 3:23pm
Msg #109845

Ever hear of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act? Hmmm guess not. n/m

Reply by Drakester on 3/30/06 3:27pm
Msg #109848

To all on this not I appologize for the dumb idea :) lol

it was just a thought

Reply by Drakester on 3/30/06 3:28pm
Msg #109849

typo: To all on this note I appologize for the dumb idea n/m

Reply by thnotary_NY on 3/30/06 3:30pm
Msg #109850

Re: typo: To all on this note I appologize for the dumb idea

You can't do it in Real Estate either.

Reply by NJ_Notary on 3/30/06 8:32pm
Msg #109930

Not a problem we just dont want you getting into trouble :) n/m

Reply by Sign/SealCO on 3/30/06 3:31pm
Msg #109851

Re: no apology necessary n/m

Reply by lulu on 3/30/06 9:11pm
Msg #109941

Re: Ever hear of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act? Hmmm guess not.

I am about to read, in it's entirety the USDOJ Price Fixing Anti-Trust Primer, however, initially I will state that you are incorrect in your reference to the Sherman Act of 1890. I will fall back to my original posting about collective bargaining and holding actions. In the 1960-1970's the National Farmers Organization was running under the concept of collectively (that means organizing to set an industry standard pricing to sell their products at) and 'holding actions' meant that they killed their livestock or poured their grain or milk on the ground rather than to take the excessively low price the processors were offering to pay for the product. Yes this may sound absurd but it was done NATIONALLY. No one was prosecuted for these acts so it obviously didn't fall under the Sherman Act!

Reply by lulu on 3/30/06 9:19pm
Msg #109943

Re: Ever hear of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act? Hmmm guess not.

A holding action creates more of a demand for a product or service which if the processor wants it they will conform to the suppliers price. This is part of supply and demand. The farmer is supplying a tangible product, a notary is supplying a service. If all notaries stood up to these processors or ss or tc and refused to take a signing for less than blank $$$. The ss or tc would have no choice but to pay a better price. Basing this off from an industry standard pricing opposed to all being so secretive about their pricing would aid ALL the newbies who constantly come on these sites looking for direction on where their pricing should be would help to regulate the industry and we would all win. This is in no way a slam against newbies but instead standing up for the many times they have asked for help in this issue and many others. Collective.

Reply by lulu on 3/30/06 9:38pm
Msg #109950

Re: Ever hear of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act? Hmmm guess not.

According to the US DOJ Price Fixing Guidelines I insert the following:
Under the law, price-fixing and bidrigging
schemes are per se violations of
the Sherman Act. This meansthat
where such a collusive scheme has
been established, it cannot be justified
under the law, for example, by arguments
or evidence that the agreed-upon
prices were reasonable, that the agreement
was necessary to prevent or eliminate
price cutting or ruinous competition,
or that the conspirators were
merely trying to make sure that each
got a fair share of the market.
My interpretation of this is that it is unacceptable to price GOUGE an industry in an organized manner. If it is done in a reasonable price range it is not in violation of the law and does not fall under the DOJ (Forms of Collusion). It is reasonable organized pricing. I can do more research and get official confirmation of my interpretation if anyone is interested in following this concept further. I am about to send off an email to the USDOJ for more information. Would this type of organized pricing (Industry Standards) prevent individuals from still taking signings for excessively low prices? Of course not. That is free enterprise. I saw it in NFO and it will continue in all industries but if the majority bond together it would have to help.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/30/06 10:30pm
Msg #109967

The Sherman Antitrust Act? for notaries?

Are you kidding me? Pardon me while I laugh roll on the floor, laughing my a$$ off. I think that bit of history has to do with way bigger dollars and interests than this little niche business.

Who said that, anyways? Please say you are joking?

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/31/06 4:59am
Msg #109990

Re: The Sherman Antitrust --Lulululu and TG...

While this may not be an issue of the Sherman Antitrust act (which is over my head for the most part, so you guys keep me in the loop on it) I once suggested that I'd encourage my network of cohorts to get their fees up and was immediately told by a lawyer and a scholar here on the notrot that I was talking about price fixing.

So....NJ's theory is not just her own to that extent. Now, Miss Title G...I believe I will laugh my a$$ off. Not because there is anything funny, but because I just do that around 5 am each morning ...preferably out in the yard. It keeps my perimeters safe.

Speaking of perimeters...

My neighbors to the rear and left of me have a privacy fence. Apparently, they do not realize that a privacy fence is not private if the neighbors on the other side of it are a good bit elevated over their fence. I am about 20 yards away from their fence and my deck is about level with the top of their privacy fence. Since I am working on making window treatments I am now looking at, in and around my windows all the time. This gives me reason to notice this interesting situation behind me. They never close their windows. They should.

The moral of the story is...if you can see people over the top of your privacy fence, it is not private!!

Reply by Tina_MA on 3/30/06 4:26pm
Msg #109865

The only issue I see is that many NSA's seem to have two different sets of fees: one for SS and one for TC.

This smacks of discrimination. The fee you charge should be the same no matter if it is a SS or TC.

A signing is a signing no matter who hires you. If anything, most SS want more work for less money (ie. fax-backs, split packages, additional copying, babysitting phone calls, etc).

Make a fee schedule and stick to it. If a SS calls and wants you to lower it, say no and let them find someone else to take advantage of.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 3/30/06 9:38pm
Msg #109949

Tina - I agree...

I have adjusted my rates based on zipcode - whether it's title/escrow or ss - the rates are the same. I have a few SS's that I do work for on a regular basis and I take a little less than my posted rates.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/31/06 2:47am
Msg #109988

Re: Tina - I agree...

Same here. I understand Lulu's analogy of middle man, but feel that we have a choice on influencing our direction which depends in part on this issue.

Theoretically, if NSAs had kept their prices at title company prices when the SS rage started, the title company/lender would have had to pay the upcharge (or share in it) for the service of notary scheduling. As it worked out the entire scheduling service cut comes out of the funds sets aside for the notary closing service.

I have a baseline I quote and seldom go below it. I respect the time of others too much to play the Negotiating Nelly game. I give my price and that's what it is. It would be pleasant if they would give their price and not "discriminate" against the notary by paying less if they can get by with it.

Reply by lulu on 3/30/06 9:46pm
Msg #109955

Different pricing for ss vs tc is not discrimination. It is like the wholesale/retail industry. If you cut out a middle man and by direct from the wholesaler you get product for a lesser price. The price one could ask from a title company directly is the price being paid to the signing service of which you are receiving a portion. If you cut out the ss you can have the whole fee.

Reply by Tina_MA on 4/1/06 9:26pm
Msg #110343

>>>Different pricing for ss vs tc is not discrimination. It is like the wholesale/retail industry. If you cut out a middle man and by direct from the wholesaler you get product for a lesser price. The price one could ask from a title company directly is the price being paid to the signing service of which you are receiving a portion. If you cut out the ss you can have the whole fee. <<<

It is *nothing* like wholesale/retail. Since when do you compare a *service industry* with a wholesale/retail?

This is why the Notary Signing Industry is going down the tubes. Too many people who know nothing whatsoever about business practices and haven't a clue as how to run a *service based* business, are killing this business with their illogical and inept business practices.