Posted by Paul2_FL on 3/19/06 11:26pm
Msg #106878

Certification of trust

I think I know the answer to this but thought I'd check it out here to be sure. I have a signing tomorrow where the borrower's are signing as trustees to a revocable trust. Within the documents the is a *Certification of Trust* that requires notarization. This document also shows signature lines for two witnesses. I know Florida is not a witness state on mortgages but I believe this documents does require two witnesses because the trustees have the power to convey property etc. My question then is this.. Can I be one of the witnesses?

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/19/06 11:33pm
Msg #106879

Paul - if it were me, I'd go ahead and email Paul/FL (paw) or one of the other FL NSA's if I needed help before in the morning. Otherwise, you might be up for awhile. It's so late where you are I'd be surpised if bright eyed and bushy tails SAs with be here tonight. Yawning myself.

Reply by PAW on 3/20/06 5:30am
Msg #106886

A "Certification of Trust" is nothing more than a condensed version of a Living Trust document which leaves out details of what is in the Trust and the identity of the beneficiaries. A Certificate of Trust is normally used to prove to a financial organization or other institution that the grantor has established a valid Living Trust, without revealing specifics that they want to keep private. Though the attorneys that I have worked with in the Estate Planning field always have had me use two 'additional' witnesses (because they are needed on some other documents), on this particular document, I do not believe it is necessary, as you are not notarizing the signatures of the witnesses. Check the document carefully to determine exactly whose signatures you are notarizing. If you are only notarizing the grantor signatures and not the witness signatures, you should be okay.

<< The preceding is not intended nor should be construed as legal advice or legal opinion. >>

Reply by Paul Kelley on 3/20/06 6:51am
Msg #106895

Thanks Brenda & Paul,
I did check the document again and I agree with you Paul that it looks like it is not necessary for witnesses even though it is set up like witnesses are required (such as a page with double notarial acknowledgements). This led me to believe that it was necessary. First one of these I've encountered. The Lender still might want witnesses so I'll check with him prior to the signing if possible.
Thanks again Paul - I can always count on you to keep me straight...

Reply by PAW on 3/20/06 7:00am
Msg #106897

Paul - Witnesses **ARE required** on the Cert of Trust. However, if you're not notarizine the witnesses signatures, you can be one of them.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/20/06 7:39am
Msg #106918

**A "Certification of Trust" is nothing more than a condensed version of a Living Trust document which leaves out details of what is in the Trust and the identity of the beneficiaries.**

That's good Paul - "nothing more" - and, here I never even heard of such as a Certification of Trust. LOL - I wonder if this just a FL vehicle for transfering property.
Do you know? If not, my probate and trust experience is a little less than I thought...and that's totally possible!

Reply by PAW on 3/20/06 7:57am
Msg #106933

It is not a "Florida" thing, but fairly common in estate planning and financing. It is simply a document that ensures to the lender (in this case) that the trust is factual and in the names of the trustee. It does not transfer property. Since FL is a mortgage state, property is not transferred when a mortgage is placed on the property (no Deed Of Trust), so there's no need to take property out of trust, mortgage it, and put it back in trust. The property ownership remains in tact with the owners (the Trust, in this case). The CoT identifies the trustees to the financial institution. That's all.