Posted by FlaMac on 3/13/06 8:16am
Msg #104336

Contacting the borrower....

Now that this issue has been thoroughly discussed, I will gladly "put it to bed." Anyone with common sense can do a search under collection's and find our discussion. Brenda in TX, IMO, has the best policy and if I ever have trouble collecting; I'm going to try some of her idea's.

I have very few collection problems and wanted to share with you why: I build a relationship with the borrower starting the moment the TC contact's me. I am not a "point and sign" type of signing agent. I represent the TC very well and I assist the borrower in making sure the broker has been forthright. The TC doesn't want to get stuck with a bad loan over a broker's misrepresentations. They appreciate signig agent's who are thorough and who know thier local law's. Remember, most TC's are out of state and not always aware of the rules we have to follow. They tend to have a high turnover and are constantly training new title clerks. For those of you looking for marketing idea's. Here are a few:

I have always said, you are a notary first and a signing agent second. And once the signing is completed, that portion of your business is done. But, by building trust with the borrower, by the time the signing is over, they will feel like they know you. That is the time to show them your card again and leave a few extra. Then, let them know that if they ever need anything else notarized, to call.

They will immediately ask you what other things could you provide for them. Obviously, some of your first answer's are: your Will, if someone get's sick and you need a POA, weddings...the main thing is to instill in them that you are a notary so that if they ever need one, you are the first person they think about. I make sure I always have a positive experience with the borrower regardless of the signing circumstances. Word of mouth advertising is one of the oldest and best way's to get your name out there.

I have gotten much business from prior loan doc customer's. One example is when a Mom called me because her 16 year old son wanted a tattoo and she needed a notarized release. I met her at the Mall Nursing Home's call me often as I am on-call for several. That is a sad side of our business. But, if you do it, just remember that you are making a difficult time for other's easier by being there. It's sad tho..if old folks or death bother you..probably should pass this one by..Hospital's are the same way..very sad. Usually you are there at the very end of someone's life...or the possibility of it.

I call every borrower two week's after the closing to make sure all went to thier satisfaction. It's important to me to work strictly for reputable TC's and Lender's and this is one way I find out.

Reply by Cheri Armentrout on 3/13/06 8:30am
Msg #104342

***I represent the TC very well and I assist the borrower in making sure the broker has been forthright. The TC doesn't want to get stuck with a bad loan over a broker's misrepresentations.***

I don't know, but those this sound dangerously close to UPL?

***Nursing Home's call me often as I am on-call for several. That is a sad side of our business. But, if you do it, just remember that you are making a difficult time for other's easier by being there. It's sad tho..if old folks or death bother you..probably should pass this one by..Hospital's are the same way..very sad. ***Usually you are there at the very end of someone's life***...or the possibility of it.***

People - Be very careful on this one! You must know that the signer is lucid enough to know what they're signing and not under any duress.

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 3/13/06 8:32am
Msg #104344

I don't make a follow up call to the borrowers, but I do wait about two weeks and then send the borrowers a letter by mail.

I basically say that it was a pleasure to meet with them and to notarize their important documents... and if you ever need a notary for any reason at any time.... I know a good one! lol

Reply by FlaMac on 3/13/06 9:15am
Msg #104351

Your way is even better..I forgot to mention also asking..

them to keep me in mind if they here of anyone who is re-financing. I have gotten ton's of signing's where the borrower requested the TC use me because I was referred by a friend or relative.

Reply by O/Cnotary on 3/13/06 9:31am
Msg #104354

Jersey Boy, that is a great idea! Do you use a form letter &

would you mind sharing it?

Reply by Charm_AL on 3/13/06 10:44am
Msg #104373

Re: Jersey Boy, that is a great idea! Do you use a form letter &

o/c...a hand written colofful post card is a nice touch too

Reply by O/Cnotary on 3/13/06 11:07am
Msg #104382

Charm, great idea and wont get tossed like just another....

advertising letter. Wonder where they could be purchased in a large quantity for a good price. Suggestions anyone????

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 3/13/06 11:58am
Msg #104400

My first question is... aren't you the one that calls the borrower and goes over all the stuff ON THE PHONE so that you don't make a trip if the loan isn't perfect? Isn't that your thing?

"I represent the TC very well and I assist the borrower in making sure the broker has been forthright."

I cannot believe I am reading this. You are NOT their attorney. You are not allowed to care whether or not the broker was forthright. What the broker promised them is hearsay anyway... how do you really know? In a signing agent capacity... the MOST you are there for is to make sure that they understand what they are signing. For instance "And this is your Adjustable Rate Note.... this is the Lender's formal committment to lend... here you will find your initial interest rate (point)... your first change date and specifics about the change dates (point)... your first payment due date (point)... your right to prepay or penalty specifics (point)... If they look at it and go..... hey hey wait... my broker said it was a 30 year fixed at 6.5 and this says adjustable at 8.5... then you say (Why don't we call the broker and get it sorted out)."

But... you don't even GO to the borrowers at first do you?


"The TC doesn't want to get stuck with a bad loan over a broker's misrepresentations."

How does a TC get stuck with a bad loan? What? If a loan funds... the TC's job is done. If a loan cancels... the TC and everybody else has put quite a bit of time and effort out there for free... but please tell me... how exactly are they STUCK WITH A BAD LOAN??? I'm stumped here.

I am so sick of this issue and the fact that you keep bringing it up. I've been watching all the back and forth and ON THIS SIGHT... you are contiunously advising things that your peers have asked you NOT TO DO. I think that it is the MOST UNPROFESSIONAL thing I have ever seen. It is disrespectful and unmindful of newbies. At the least, you could just shush up about it and agree to disagree.

And by the way... I think that "building a relationship with the borrower" so that I can get notary work from them is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. BUT... if you haven't figured it out already then you must be REALLY BUSY(sarcasm) so I'll just keep that info to myself. Someday (maybe) you'll figure it out.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 3/13/06 12:42pm
Msg #104406

Re: TO AngelinaAZ- can you click on my link I wanted to send

you an e-mail not sure who you are? I have a question regarding a title company in AZ...THANKS

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/13/06 1:43pm
Msg #104427

TC's don't "get stuck" with bad loans FlaMac...

you are out of your mind. I issue title insurance on on loans all day long and we don't get stuck with anything.

Stop talking of what you know nothing about.

Reply by Beth/MD on 3/13/06 4:56pm
Msg #104507

Re: Contacting the borrower....Yes Angelina!

I too am sick of her bringing this up---constantly. I personally think she adores the attention she's getting. It's made her name "infamous" on this board. I guess she feels that will make her a big name poster. The truth is, I don't know of anyone, except maybe some poor unwitting newbie, that would even listen to her notary advice.

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/13/06 12:58pm
Msg #104411

>I call every borrower two week's after the closing to make sure all went to thier satisfaction.<

FlaMac, what do you do if the borrower tells you they're unhappy and dissatisfied with the way things went, or if they tell you they rescinded, or if they complain about the broker, or. . .any of a hundred other things they might say that you can do nothing about?

I feel that I would be leaving myself wide open for problems I couldn't help them with, which would make them dissatisfied with me, too!

Reply by Charm_AL on 3/13/06 1:21pm
Msg #104418

yes, I was wondering why anyone would want to insinuate themselves into the borrower's business after the fact. I would never call a borrower to find out how it went and was it to their satisfaction. That's just begging to open a can of worms! Our job is done after the pkg gets dropped.

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/13/06 1:38pm
Msg #104422

Although FlaMac may be onto something there, a new career, perhaps - loan advocate. I sold a house and bought another in July and would have LOVED to pay someone to help me through all the. . .stuff. . .I had to go through to get a good deal.

A disinterested third-party employed by the borrower, who would get the best deals on the property and the loan and not leave me feeling as if I had been put through the wringer by the realtors and the buyer and the seller and the appraiser and the loan officer and STILL ended up paying too much in "administrative fees" to all of 'em.

Not as a notary signing agent, of course. But seeing a need and meeting it is how successful business start. . .

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/13/06 2:46pm
Msg #104448

Actually that's a great idea, Marlene. n/m

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/13/06 2:55pm
Msg #104456

Re: Go for it. . .

I don't know beans about the business, and after buying and selling two houses in ten years, I never want to do it again and don't want to know any more about how I was snockered.

My next stop is the nursing home.

Reply by Beth/MD on 3/13/06 4:59pm
Msg #104510

Re: Contacting the borrower....2 weeks after...

But didn't you tell them you a notary, not a loan officer? Why would you be so NOSY about their finance when you were hired to NOTARIZE a pac of loan docs. You were hired to be their financial counselor. You're certainly not the customer service rep from a loan company doing a follow-up, so why would you do this? Frankly, I think it's only a matter of time before you get NO calls. Who'd hire you?

Reply by Beth/MD on 3/13/06 5:00pm
Msg #104511

Re: Contacting the borrower....2 weeks after...

That's supposed to be a ? after financial counselor...sorry.

Reply by SatomiCO on 3/13/06 5:11pm
Msg #104517

Re: I've only had two occasions to contact borrower ...

after the signing. One is a dog groomer who now grooms my dog every three months, and the other was a 20 something young lady who was purchasing a condo in California. Her family all lived out of town, so I kind of took her under my wing as much as I could without dispensing UPL. I made her read every single page twice, and if she was still uncertain, then I made her read it a third or fourth time. We sat on the floor and used packed up boxes as tables. She told me the day she was leaving for the drive and the day she would be moving in. Even after four hours, she was such a neat kid and I hope someone would be as patient and understanding with my own son. I picked up a house warming card at the grocery store and timed the mailing in hopes that it would arrive the same day she moved in.

Reply by Beth/MD on 3/13/06 5:15pm
Msg #104520

Re: I've only had two occasions to contact borrower ..Satomi

What a nice story. I'm sure everything you did was greatly appreciated. You sound very nice.

I've picked up a new dry cleaner and even know who I want to call when I need a realtor.

Reply by SatomiCO on 3/13/06 5:26pm
Msg #104524

Re: Beth ...

she has to absolutely be my "most favorite" signing story, even considering I made squat for the amount I got paid and the length of time I was there ... but it doesn't always have to be about the money. It was one of those signings where the money was more than made up through another "easy/quick" signing.

Reply by Alex Yvonnou on 3/13/06 1:23pm
Msg #104419

This is getting scary...more awful advice

You call the borrowers two weeks after the signing to make sure everything went alright? No, no, no, no, no!!!! Does the title company know you do this? Every loan officer and title company I know would flip out if they found out you were doing this. When the signing is done, your job is done. Period. I know signing agents who have been dumped for this on several occasions. The borrower is NOT your customer, you have no business calling them again to see if things went alright.

You assist the borrower in making sure the broker has been forthright? I'm not a point and sign kinda guy, and I make sure the borrower sees all the loan terms, but this is a really scary statement. That sounds waaaaay past the line of UPL.

You say you know your local laws. That may be true, but you lack even basic common sense. I'm sorry for sounding harsh, but your advice is going land someone in the unemployment line or worse. Just terrible, terrible advice.

Reply by Charm_AL on 3/13/06 1:41pm
Msg #104426

Re: This is getting scary...more awful advice

Alex, consider the source... I am very worried about newbies taking any of this seriously. The constant blatant wrong and or bad advice is like you said, really going to hurt someone someday.

***You say you know your local laws. That may be true, but you lack even basic common sense***

not necessarily, as evidenced by this thread and the following posts. #104063

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/13/06 1:40pm
Msg #104424

Stop with the inflammatory posts, please FlaMac

You're insulting the intelligence of every good signing agent here with your nonsense. If you want to take your role as SA and turn it into something that it is not, do it on your own time, and under your own errors and ommissions insurance, not here. You're dangerous to anyone new and there are a lot of them.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 3/13/06 1:51pm
Msg #104429

Check out post number 101697...

I almost flipped out when I saw it and responded as politely as I could. I don't think polite works here!! I don't get it... it's like talking to a wall!

This advice just keeps getting crapped onto the board over and over.

Does anybody else think it stinks in here!

Reply by Charm_AL on 3/13/06 2:02pm
Msg #104430

Re: Check out post number 101697...

oh yea...another classic NO NO...

unfortunately, I have to deal with someone exactly like this in real life. It is so frustrating to deal with someone that is so black and white and wrong about everything to boot.

Today she was all over the place asking people to e-mail her.

Newbies PAY attention. This self proclaimed know it all is dangerous to your career. Take it from the ones who have been around for awhile and are respected. Listen to (just a few off the top of my head) Titlegal, Brenda_TX, Slyvia, PAW, who took her to the mat the other day on Florida and her misinformation...Satomi_CO and any that I missed that know their stuff and have common sense and logic.

Reply by Beth/MD on 3/13/06 2:37pm
Msg #104442

Re: I discussed this in class today!

In my Contracts II class in property segment I brought up the whole contact the borrower, etc. issue and lien placing for open discussion. Can you believe some of the others in class looked at me like I'd been drinking? And I can't even repeat what Dr. Rees had to say. I think they all thought I was kidding just for a reaction. Mike Swells is thinking about an article for Nota Bene. Go figure.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/13/06 2:45pm
Msg #104446

Re: I discussed this in class today!

Wow, that's saying something, Beth! I hope FlaMac read these posts and takes a moment to consider what she's doing.

It's fine to want to be right or discuss your point of view, but to ignore all the caution everyone's posted here would be nuts.

Reply by Beth/MD on 3/13/06 2:52pm
Msg #104455

Re: I discussed this in class today!

One of the best lessons I learned since beginning law school, I learned last year right here on Notary Rotary. I learned all law is interpretive per situation and sometimes no matter how much you think you're right--you can be wrong. Every one was quick to point it out when I had taken a law I'd read/studied and tried to apply it to the business. My professor at the time told me to "shut up and listen" to the wiser/more experienced crowd. That's what I did.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/13/06 5:02pm
Msg #104513

Re: I discussed this in class today!

That was great advice...I'm no law clerk (except for CA subdivison, equivalent of a paralegal there) but I'd have to agree about interpretation.

Plus, just watch Boston Legal. Now there's some *interpretation* !!

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/13/06 8:22pm
Msg #104585

Beth/MD...

You know, Beth, I have always liked and respected your posts...but I had no idea you were a law student. Good for you...and hope as you get more and more knowledgable, you won't forget us "little people" here on NR

I enjoy the posts here regarding the law, real estate or otherwise (and frankly? My real opinion is that on this board, the advice on law issues is just for all our education, rather than someone guilty of UPL) I say keep it coming.

That's why PAW's posts, Satomi's and others who deal with the issues in respect to legality...even you Korey. (Did I just say that?)

Seriously, I started out my career to be a paralegal without knowing a thing about the actual position. Now that I do, I wouldn't be a paralegal for all the tea in China. I'm lucky I get to do basically the same, without all the grunt work, in the cozy confines of the title company.

Real estate law here in CA, specifically subdivisions, is fun stuff, I love it, and carry my little (not) RE Law book, issued by the California DRE, like my bible. It's dog-earred, tabbed and written all over, but it's my best friend and has saved me in more than one situation with critical, demanding subdividers.

Hope you find your niche and love it as much as I do.

Reply by Beth/MD on 3/13/06 8:36pm
Msg #104588

Re: Beth/MD...TitleGalCA

It's a secret...don't tell...

Yes, I'm second year--U of Baltimore Law. Unfortunately, I will be acting more like a law student and less like an SA after May. I will be dropping out of the business. I was awarded a cushy internship with a DC law firm and will begin in June.

Thanks for the great words. Like I've mentioned a few times before...I can't pay for the education I receive right here. I'm thinking of taking PAW in as my own personal tutor!

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/13/06 8:54pm
Msg #104593

A good choice! n/m

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/13/06 9:01pm
Msg #104595

I didn't finish... =(

I'd expect your new career might be more lucrative!

Wow, congratulations on the internship, you must have impressed the right people. Good luck!

I'd expect you're somewhere between 23-26. It doesn't matter, but humor a middle aged Mom. It just gives me warm fuzzies as I watch my 25 yr. old daughter go forth and make impressions and the bucks! (Bye the way, I was but a mere chile.....)

There's lots of good stuff ahead for you Beth, and when you get old (like me) I 'd expect you'll also get sort of turned on, for lack of a better phrase, by smart young people who will take your place eventually.

Go forth and conquer!

Reply by PAW on 3/13/06 3:14pm
Msg #104464

Very dangerous ...

In one of her posts above, she stated:

Your way is even better..I forgot to mention also asking..
Posted by FlaMac of FL on 3/13/06 9:15am
Msg #104351 from logged in user

them to keep me in mind if they here of anyone who is re-financing. I have gotten ton's of signing's where the borrower requested the TC use me because I was referred by a friend or relative.


To which the following is my response:

Why do you have this propensity to exaggerate the truth beyond comprehension? With 381 mobile notaries in your area (and that's just what is registered here on NotRot), I doubt very seriously that you have received "ton's [sic] of signing's [sic]" because of referrals. Of course, your definition of a ton may be very different than mine. I will grant you that I too have had a TC referral due to a happy borrower, but certainly not an abundance of them.

Your continued exaggerations, tendency to embellish the truth and posting unsubstantiated statements (e.g., bill to make it illegal to fax notarized documents) may do disreputable harm to an unsuspecting green notary signing agent. Of course, those who have been around the block at least once, see you for what you are: an embarrassment to my profession.

I have asked you in the past for sources of your information. You have either chosen to ignore my request or just cannot provide such source. This bit about the bill to outlaw faxbacks is just another one. I have found nothing to substantiate this, actually, quite to the contrary. There are bills in the US House or Senate (not sure off hand which one) that will **required** notarized documents to be faxed immediately upon signing and followed by the original documents in the mail. To wit: File No. S7-14-04 (SEC) - Proposed Rule: Mandated Electronic Filing for Form ID

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/13/06 8:27pm
Msg #104586

Read this FlaMac and respond, if you can.

And I'll be specific since you aren't - it's PAW's post just above mine. At this point after all the mis-information and bad advice you've spewed, you should answer this. If you don't, you've answered anyway.

Reply by hcampersFL on 3/13/06 2:58pm
Msg #104460

Please take a break from this board and re-read your Florida manuel. I'm not sure it would do much good but it's worth a try.
B.

Reply by John_NorCal on 3/13/06 4:12pm
Msg #104484

Re: Contacting the borrower....To: FlaMac

I really can't figure you out. Are you so full of yourself that with all the passionate responses that you have received, you still can't see the forest for the trees? It 's bad enough that notaries from around the country have called you to task for your posts, but your fellow notaries from Florida, those who know your states laws, still have no effect on your misinformation.
I have seen nothing but nonsense in your posts. You lack basic common sense and are a fountain of disinformation for the uninformed. For someone who seemingly wants federal intervention in this industry, your very actions would probably land you on the wrong side of the regulations that you wish to entertain. Take a breather FlaMac, read your states laws, read, "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and don't interrupt yourself while you're reading!

Reply by Beth/MD on 3/13/06 4:51pm
Msg #104501

Re: Contacting the borrower....To: FlaMac

Gosh I wish I'd have wrote this! John_NorCal has said it sooooo well. Now if only FlaMac would take it to heart. However, what I've seen to be her pattern is, she'll trash a couple of the experienced regulars for calling her to task and then post to a ficticious group of supporters thanking them for their emails. If I had any respect at all left for her, it left with her early morning comments before 8 am that did nothing but stir up the hornet's nest.

Lady, doesn't it bother you to know that you were a laughing stock in a respected law professor's class today?

Reply by SatomiCO on 3/13/06 4:12pm
Msg #104485

Why do you insist on constantly stirring the pot with bad or misformation?

My suggestion for any new or inexperienced signing agent just coming on board is to disregard any suggestions from FlaMac in regards to collecting payment, how tos before the signing and while at the signing table, or contacting borrower after the signing.

Reply by LilyMD on 3/13/06 5:29pm
Msg #104525

Re: This woman has no business giving out

advice to anyone. Everything she's posted has been wrong, wrong, wrong. And from her latest lunatic ravings, I'd say she's a praticioner of UPL. She seems to be inept at being a Notary and now she's advising borrowers on matters she should not even be discussing.
I think Beth's right. She loves the attention. That's why she stirs the pot and then plays the wounded victim.