Posted by Becca_FL on 3/23/06 9:29pm
Msg #108236
Crazy people, literally
I did a closing today for a woman that was so far out in left field that I had to ask the question; "have you ever been adjudicated mentally incompetent?" The answer I received troubled me. The borrower said "No, the courts have sent me to mental health three times and I always come out okay."
I swear this is not a joke. This really happened to me.
The house was a mess with boxes, newspapers, cat food and new furniture pieces everywhere. I heard it all from her; how she met W and Laura to Animal control taking her pets to marrying her "common-law husband" while in a mental health facility and why he is now in prison. She told me her truck was stolen and the court would not give it back to her because they (the court) lost her drivers license. This woman was a true whack job!
Kudos to Colleen Hatton for her understanding and her terrific sense of humor, but please don't ask me to back and get the junk docs signed because the TC didn't send them. I have no plans to return to that nut house.
We really do meet all kinds, don't we.
| Reply by LauriecPA on 3/23/06 9:35pm
Msg #108238
and here I thought the lady I met today with 1 dog, 7 cats and 17 (yes, that's right, I said 17!) ferrets was bad! lol Boy, did that place smell! I was really trying to rush through that job!
| Reply by MelissaM_FL on 3/23/06 10:25pm
Msg #108243
I have to tell you that I'm glad you got THAT call! 
We had our share of them down here tonight, but nothing that even comes close to yours!
| Reply by Erin C. Wall Signature Services on 3/23/06 10:27pm
Msg #108244
Is it possible she should not have signed anything? Who are you to judge? I had a similar situation recently. I believe predatory lenders are on the move, however, the Tiltle Company must bear some keep in this one.....I say sally forth and pray you get out of there with your pen and briefcase. You have done nothing wrong.
| Reply by Erin C. Wall Signature Services on 3/23/06 10:32pm
Msg #108245
Maybe we should stipulate to the caller to initiate the closing that we will not be sent into a den of retards.
| Reply by Erin C. Wall Signature Services on 3/23/06 10:35pm
Msg #108246
By retards, I mean total complete idiots who have no idea why they are at the table. Drool is optianal. Just because a competent person answers the door, well you tell me. Never EVER drink their coffee!
| Reply by Erin C. Wall Signature Services on 3/23/06 10:36pm
Msg #108247
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| Reply by MelissaM_FL on 3/23/06 10:55pm
Msg #108249
Erin? Long day? It's our job to judge if the person is competent to sign the paperwork. If a notary feels that the person is totally out there, the notary (at least in FL) has the obligation to refuse the notarization. I refuse notarizations regularly if I don't feel that someone is capable of understanding what they are signing. However, I also do a lot of notary work at nursing homes and extended care facilities. I've only refused a few loan signings because of a borrower's incompetence, usually involving alcohol.
I have a feeling you're having EOM madness like the rest of us.
| Reply by Cris_AR on 3/23/06 11:28pm
Msg #108254
MelissaM FL, I agree.
| Reply by Erin C. Wall Signature Services on 3/24/06 6:45pm
Msg #108411
AH Yes!!! You are correct!! One must fight that madness!!
| Reply by ReneeK_MI on 3/24/06 3:26am
Msg #108265
Again - experience & knowledge fuels empathy.
I worked for a while with Community Mental Health, attended adjudication hearings, have plenty of experience in the world of "crazy people" and those so distastefully referred to as "retards" (shame on you!).
All I have to say is - there, but by the grace of God, go I. Or you. Or one of your children. Perhaps your mother. None of us are above, or beyond.
| Reply by SueW/Tn on 3/24/06 6:10am
Msg #108269
excellent post Renee.... n/m
| Reply by John_NorCal on 3/24/06 8:47am
Msg #108296
Re: Crazy people, literally.....Good post Renee
It's so easy to forget the thin line that keeps all of us in check. Anyone of us through some action or inaction can be judged by another to be different, be it physically or mentally. I have a lot of respect for people who can work in the mental health field. I know I couldn't.
As was mentioned previously, our job is to make sure that the signer understands what they are signing. Not to make any judgement as to their mental faculties.
| Reply by Becca_FL on 3/24/06 9:20am
Msg #108299
Re: Crazy people, literally.....To All...
I did the signing because she said over and over that she understood what she was signing, but kept bringing up the fact that the judge sent her three times for a mental evaluation. The Florida manual states that we can not acknowledge the signature of a person we know has been adjudicated mentally incapacitated. I wanted to be sure that she was not found mentally impaired. My main concern was to cover MY butt. I'm not trained in the mental health field, so I could not form a definitive opinion, but I wanted to be sure before I continued. In my opinion, the lady was nuts. (KNVTS, NUTS) I was not judging her, but simply formed an opinion based on what I saw.
| Reply by ColleenCA on 3/24/06 9:36am
Msg #108304
Re: Crazy people, literally.....To All...
Becca, I don't think the responses to your post reflect any ill feelings about the way you handled the signing. I took offense to Erin's description of the type of people you are talking about. There are so many people who are mentally ill and cannot afford private hospitalization. There is literally no where for them to go within the public system and she probably was let go by the hospital as she stated because they simply couldn't keep her due to funding. This is so sad. Yes, it is our job to determine if the person is mentally able to sign. If not, then we have to pack it up and go on our way.
| Reply by John_NorCal on 3/24/06 10:16am
Msg #108321
Re: I agree Colleen
I think Becca handled the signing in a non judgemental, professional manner.
| Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 3/24/06 10:21am
Msg #108323
Re: Crazy people, literally.....To All...
Oh I take extreme offense to the use of "retards". So here's a little egumakashun for you Erin.
From Websters
mental- a (1) : of, relating to, or affected by a psychiatric disorder <a mental patient> <mental illness> (2) : mentally disordered : MAD, CRAZY b : intended for the care or treatment of persons affected by psychiatric disorders <mental hospitals>
retarded-sometimes offensive : slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress
From Encyclopedia.com
MENTAL DISORDERS [mental disorders] see bipolar disorder ; paranoia ; psychiatry ; psychosis ; schizophrenia .
BIPOLAR DISORDER [bipolar disorder] formerly manic-depressive disorder or manic-depression, severe mental disorder involving manic episodes that are usually accompanied by episodes of depression . The term "manic-depression" was introduced by the German psychiatrist Emil Kraepelin in 1896. The manic phase of the disorder is characterized by an abnormally elevated or irritable mood, grandiosity, sleeplessness, extravagance, and a tendency toward irrational judgment. During the depressed phase, the person tends to appear lethargic and withdrawn, shows a lack of concentration, and expresses feelings of worthlessness, self-blame, and guilt. This dual character of the disorder has given it the name bipolar disorder, in contrast to the unipolar depression symptomatic of the majority of mood disorders. The symptoms range in intensity and pattern and may not be recognized at first. Individuals suffering from bipolar disorder may have long periods in their lives without episodes of mania or depression, but manic-depressives have the highest suicide rate of any group with a psychological disorder.
mental retardation-MENTAL RETARDATION [mental retardation] below average level of intellectual functioning, usually defined by an IQ of below 70 to 75, combined with limitations in the skills necessary for daily living. Daily living skills include such things as communication, the ability to care for oneself, and the ability to work. The definition of mental retardation has evolved over the years. Prior categorizations of mental retardation, defined solely by IQ, have largely been abandoned in favor of an approach that looks at how much support the retarded person needs in various areas of his or her life at any given time. Such support can range from intermittent help in such things as finding housing or a job, to pervasive, daily, lifelong help in all areas. The term mentally retarded itself, although still commonly used, has been replaced in some settings by the term developmentally disabled.
AUTISM [autism] , a developmental disability resulting from a neurological disorder that affects the normal functioning of the brain. It is characterized by the abnormal development of communication skills, social skills, and reasoning. Males are affected four times as often as females. Children may appear generally normal until around the age of 30 months, although studies have identified signs of autism in children under a year of age. Symptoms, which vary widely in severity, include impairment in social interaction, fixation on inanimate objects, inability to communicate normally, and resistance to changes in daily routine. Characteristic traits include lack of eye contact, repetition of words or phrases, unmotivated tantrums, inability to express needs verbally, and insensitivity to pain. Behaviors may change over time. Autistic children often have other disorders of brain function; about two thirds are mentally retarded; over one quarter develop seizures. The cause of autism remains unclear, but a psychological one has been ruled out. Neurological studies indicate a primary brain dysfunction, perhaps related to abnormalities that appear to occur in the way the autistic child's brain develops, and a genetic component is suggested by a pattern of autism in some families. Treatment in which autistic children are intensively and repetitively taught skills and behaviors from a young age appears to help some children with the disorder.
In summary. Crazy means mentally ill. Mental illness has to do with specific disorders. Retardation is a developmental problem. The brain has not developed normally. I chose to put up information on bipolar and autism so that you can see the difference between them. It is extremely offensensive to call someone a retard. It is even more offensive to equate someone with a developmental disability with someone who is mentally ill. So in this case my comeback is "my child is disabled, your just ingorant". Now that you've been egumakaded you can't be accused of being ignorant anymore.
So some may think this is a harsh reaction. WRONG. The latest statistic on autism is that 1 in every 150 born today are born with on the autistic spectrum. For those who don't know this the spectrum is so vast that there are subgroups that it is not obvious that there's an issue unless you have daily interaction with the individual. That's just autism, there are other developemental disabilities also.
>climbs down from soapbox, yet reserves right to climb back up if need be...
| Reply by Sarah/CA on 3/24/06 10:15am
Msg #108318
Just for future reference and since I have not had this situation yet, what do you say to these crazy people to get out of the signing. I know we are not suppose to let them sign if they don't understand the documents but what excuse do you give them to get out of there.
| Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 3/24/06 10:48am
Msg #108336
No excuses. If they don't have comprehension then they don't have comprehension. Let them know that in your opinion they don't seem to understand what they are signing and it would be a violation of your commission to do the assignment. As far as not offending them all you can do is tell them as politely as possible. You then pack up, go, and call the hiring entity.
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