Posted by O/Cnotary on 3/14/06 11:13pm
Msg #105071

Florida is a witness state right? Doing a signing for FLA

property tomorrow here in CA, 2 witnesses and can I be one of them?

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 3/14/06 11:19pm
Msg #105074

Courtesy of PAW about 2 posts down.

The following list of states that require witnesses for **recording of a mortgage or deed of trust** is for those who don't already have it. (You won't find this information in your notary handbooks.)

2005 State Witness Requirements (as determined by PROPERTY LOCATION)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
CT - 2 witnesses, one can be the notary
FL - 2 witnesses, one can be the notary - DEEDS OF CONVEYANCE ONLY
GA - 2 witnesses, one MUST be the notary
LA - 2 witnesses, CANNOT be the notary
SC - 2 witnesses, one can be the notary

NOTES:
1) FL - Mortgages DO NOT require witnesses, DEEDS (QuitClaim, Warranty, etc.) do.
2) VT - Effective 7/1/04, Act 150, Sec. 1.27 V.S.A. §2 was amended to remove witness requirements.
3) Lenders may require witnesses, even though there is no state requirement

Reply by Michael Scaliatine on 3/14/06 11:31pm
Msg #105076

From the website hhtp://www.JaxNotary.com comes this bit of info, also found in the Governer's Reference Manual for Notaries (page 54):
http://www.myflorida.com/myflorida/government/governorinitiatives/notary/pdfs/ref_manual41-68.pdf

Did you know that Florida is one of the states that WILL not allow a notary to notarize a person's signature by subscribing witness?

Some notaries believe that it is permissible to notarize a signature when a person is not present - if someone who witnessed the signing of the document appears before the notary swears that a person actually signed the document. Misunderstanding may stem from a section in Florida law that provides a method by which instruments concerning real property may be entitled to recording in Florida when the document signer can not appear before a notary to acknowledge his or her signature. This procedure, known as proof of execution by subscribing witness, is not legal for Florida Notary Publics.

And the follwing info comes from the Florida state lawbook at: http://www.myflorida.com/myflorida/government/governorinitiatives/notary/lawbook.html

(5) A notary public may not notarize a signature on a document unless he or she personally knows, or has satisfactory evidence, that the person whose signature is to be notarized is the individual who is described in and who is executing the instrument. A notary public shall certify in the certificate of acknowledgment or jurat the type of identification, either based on personal knowledge or other form of identification, upon which the notary public is relying.

(a) For purposes of this subsection, "personally knows" means having an acquaintance, derived from association with the individual, which establishes the individual's identity with at least a reasonable certainty.

(b) For the purposes of this subsection, "satisfactory evidence" means the absence of any information, evidence, or other circumstances which would lead a reasonable person to believe that the person whose signature is to be notarized is not the person he or she claims to be and any one of the following:

1. The sworn written statement of one credible witness personally known to the notary public or the sworn written statement of two credible witnesses whose identities are proven to the notary public upon the presentation of satisfactory evidence that each of the following is true:

a. That the person whose signature is to be notarized is the person named in the document;

b. That the person whose signature is to be notarized is personally known to the witnesses;

c. That it is the reasonable belief of the witnesses that the circumstances of the person whose signature is to be notarized are such that it would be very difficult or impossible for that person to obtain another acceptable form of identification;

d. That it is the reasonable belief of the witnesses that the person whose signature is to be notarized does not possess any of the identification documents specified in subparagraph 2.; and

e. That the witnesses do not have a financial interest in nor are parties to the underlying transaction.

I know it was a long answer but I hope it helps. Michael, owner of Http://www.JaxNotary.com

Reply by PAW on 3/15/06 7:10am
Msg #105099

Re: Florida is a witness state right? Doing a signing for FL

First, I don't believe the initial post was in regards to a "subscribing" witness. And yes, FL does not allow for a subscribing witness notarization. The discussion of witnesses needed for loan document signings, is usually about the **recording** requirements for the deed or mortgage. This requirement is not discussed in notary laws and usually not provided in notary manuals. The issue of whether or not witnesses are required to record a document are found in the statutes covering recordings and real property conveyance.

Also, the MyFlorida website does not always the provide the most current information. The website is nothing more than the 2000 edition of the Governor's Manual, posted online. There has been one reprint since then, November 2001 and a few minor updates by FL lawmakers. The best source of information for FL notary information, especially when it pertains to the law, is the law itself. Fortunately for us, the Florida Statutes Annotated are online, pretty current, searchable and accessible.

You can download the Florida Governor's Reference Manual for Notaries (2001) from the MyFlorida website (http://www.myflorida.com/myflorida/government/governorinitiatives/notary/reference.html) which provides the manual in 11 different PDF files or from my website as one PDF file.

Reply by O/Cnotary on 3/15/06 9:40am
Msg #105139

PAW, you are right, I wasnt aksing about a subscribing witne

just a witness to the signing of loan docs. This witness does not need to be id'd or sign my journal or anything other than sign on the "witness" line, is that correct???

Reply by PAW on 3/15/06 10:33am
Msg #105171

Correct.

Witnesses to the transaction are just that. If the witnesses signatures are not notarized, there is no need to have them sign your notary journal. However, many notaries do note in their journal, who the witnesses were and some even copy ID information.

If the witnesses signatures are notarized (as in a Will, for some states), then the witnesses also need to sign the journal.

Reply by O/Cnotary on 3/15/06 10:46am
Msg #105188

Thx PAW, as always a very quick and direct answer!You d man! n/m

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 3/15/06 9:42am
Msg #105143

curious question...

I understand that some states require certain number of witnesses for recording, as PAW outlined.

New Jersey is does not require witnesses, if a witness block exists on the documents, I can sign both witness places as well as notarize. Question is... if the document is being signed in New Jersey, do I really need to know that states requirement? Since it is being signed in New Jersey, doesn't NJ rules apply for witnessing as well?

Reply by FlaMac on 3/15/06 9:57am
Msg #105154

You're correct.........

you notarize the doc according to the law's of the state where the doc is being signed. I do many signing's at the Disney resort's for folks who are down here on vacation. Same rule always applies. Many lenders want witness signatures whether required by law or not.

Reply by PAW on 3/15/06 10:42am
Msg #105183

Re: You are NOT correct ..... FOR FL PROPERTY - READ THIS

The witness requirement for RECORDING mortgages and deeds have nothing to do with notary laws. The RECORDING requirement, as previously explained, depend on the PROPERTY LOCATION, not the signing location.

For example, if you are notarizing a Warranty Deed for Florida property, the Deed MUST be witnessed by two witnesses (one of which can be the notary). This is outline if Florida's real property statutes on how property is conveyed. The recording of the Deed must following the recording statutes which state that the signatures of the grantor must be notarized in order for the Deed to be recorded. It makes no difference if the Deed is signed in Florida or New York or California. It requires two witnesses to convey Florida property ownership.

(Note: Anytime a witness signs a document to be recorded in Florida, the witnesses name must be PRINTED beneath their signature.)


FlaMac - Please stop providing false and otherwise misleading information that may cause problems after the signing is complete. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't open your mouth.

Reply by O/Cnotary on 3/15/06 10:48am
Msg #105190

PLEASE stop responding with bad info. You are confusing

answers to good questions with a bunch of BS!!

Reply by MichiganAl on 3/15/06 11:03am
Msg #105200

OMG, STOP GIVING OUT WRONG INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is wrong with you? You don't know what you're talking about! You are a walking lawsuit waiting to happen.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/15/06 9:49am
Msg #105149

I am not sure JaxNotary, but your site seems like it is going to be a database for notaries. Is that true? I looked at it. You might as well read the fine print on this website early on and you will find out that Harry of NR will not allow advertising of a competing website here.

If you are building a network of notaries like I have at one of my websites, please contact me as I will be developing a list of websites similar to my own to add onto mine. If you are a signing service do not bother as I am developing my site to avoid the problem of splitting my fees with signing services. Some title companies are finding my site to be helpful.

I don't advertise a website which might compete here, however. Do not be surprised if your post is deleted, and rightly so.

You will notice my network website is not being stated in my post. It is in my profile as yours should be. Harry won't much care for it being advertised on the forum.

Reply by FlaMac on 3/15/06 10:01am
Msg #105157

You're site is very professional. You're the only notary...

currently listed so that would be Harry's "call". But, if you add more signing agents then it's very possible NR will ask you not to advertise here Glad to here from a fellow Floridian that know's his stuff......

Reply by John_NorCal on 3/15/06 11:15am
Msg #105208

Re: You're site is very professional. You're the only notary...

There you go again! Spouting off about things you know nothing of! I won't reiterate what has already been said about this particular post. However I will repost my message #104484 and implore you to read it and take heed! You do notlhing but cause problems and will cause harm to anyone who follows your advice! My post is reprinted below, in case you're to lazy to search for it.

I really can't figure you out. Are you so full of yourself that with all the passionate responses that you have received, you still can't see the forest for the trees? It 's bad enough that notaries from around the country have called you to task for your posts, but your fellow notaries from Florida, those who know your states laws, still have no effect on your misinformation.
I have seen nothing but nonsense in your posts. You lack basic common sense and are a fountain of disinformation for the uninformed. For someone who seemingly wants federal intervention in this industry, your very actions would probably land you on the wrong side of the regulations that you wish to entertain. Take a breather FlaMac, read your states laws, read, "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and don't interrupt yourself while you're reading