Posted by Allan Webb on 3/17/06 4:42pm
Msg #106365
General question
I had a guy call me to notorize a statement from someone he was doing business with, just an ack. The middle initial on the document was wrong. The guy asked if he could change the intial to the proper initial, and would I notorize the document. I told him that it would be better if the originator of the document changed it officially. Although I still think this is true, I'm wondering if I could have notorized the document based on the change my client was going to make himself. I would still be basically saying that the name on the document matched the name on his I.D, which is true. What do you think?
| Reply by Ninna_La on 3/17/06 4:57pm
Msg #106374
If it's simply an affidavit/statement.... have him line through, correct, and initial. Be sure to change it every where in the document it appears, including the signature line if it is incorrect. Then notarize. If you were dealing with loan documents, you would need to contact who contracted you. Otherwise, it should be no big deal to correct it.
| Reply by eXpedN_TX on 3/17/06 5:05pm
Msg #106378
If the ID does not match the paperwork, then it is difficult to ID them. If the intial they wanted to use matches the ID, then I would allow them to cross out the initial, write in the correct one (the one that matches the ID card), and initial it. I would make a note about this in my journal. Have a great weekend!!
| Reply by PAW on 3/18/06 5:21am
Msg #106491
ID doesn't match the paperwork. That'a a problem ...
... that too many notaries face. The issue is that the notary needs to ensure that the paperwork matches the ID. All too often I find notaries, especially signing agents, trying to find an acceptable ID to match the docs, when we should be doing it the other way around.
As a Notary Public, your job is to properly ID the signer. Thus the signer presents you with an acceptable form of identification. If that identification matches the name on the document signature line, then you have done your job (this part of it anyway). If the identification doesn't match the name, then further investigation and alternatives must be sought. Often, it is modifying the documents to match the ID.
Of course there are always variances and exceptions, such as maiden/married name issues where it is easier and just as reliable to use an acceptable ID that matches the documents. My point is that notaries try too hard to make ID's work with documents and should be reversed.
| Reply by SLP_VA on 3/18/06 5:48am
Msg #106493
Paw - Name Variation Not Always Applicable for VA
The name variation on an ID versus loan docs in the state in VA does not matter.
I.E.: If the borrower's driver's license shows as Mary E. Doe which is her now married name, but docs show Mary H Doe which was her maiden name (and how title was originally taken on loan), as long as TC and lender say it's OK, the borrower may sign as docs show.
The name variation does not come into play. As long as the Notary Public is certain that the person signing the document is the person in front of them, then it is ok to accept the form of ID given. This is per the SOS as I had to contact them in a situation like that a while back. VA notary laws are really vague. Just like I was not aware that an expired DL could be used as an acceptable form of ID as all the handbook states is that DL and ID card (among other forms of ID) could be used. It did not state it had to be unexpired. Wasn't aware of that until I actually ran across my 1st expired ID card for a general notarization. I just always assumed it had to be unexpired.
Just my 2 cents. 
| Reply by PAW on 3/18/06 6:05am
Msg #106494
Re: Paw - Name Variation Not Always Applicable for VA
Some states have very lax guidelines for identifying the signer. Others, have very strict guidelines. So, for those states that are vague in their statutes, the successful identification of the signer rests more with the notary. In states like FL, if acceptable ID per statute is not available, then it's a no sign. It's pretty rigid for the most part. There are times, the strictness is beneficial, but when there is an ID -> Doc mismatch, then it would be nice to have a bit of laxity. Fortunately, FL has devised a way to do that, since we can include capacity in our notary certificates. Though I rarely use the opportunity, we (FL) do have the ability to state in our certificate a statement of representation. That is: "... before me appeared Jane Doe [as shown on the ID] who represented to me that he she was formerly known as Jane Smith [as shown on the documents] and presented a driver's license [or whatever form of ID was used] as identification in the name of Jane Doe [as shown on the ID]."
Of course, this format of the certificate should never be used to "fix" spelling errors. That should be fixed on the document and initialed or the documents redrawn correctly. (Or the ID corrected by the issuing authority.) Just like the AKA - Same Name Affidavits should not be used to tie a misspelled name with the correct spelling of a name. The documents need to be corrected. (Isn't that the purpose of the E&O/Compliance Agreement?)
| Reply by SLP_VA on 3/18/06 6:12am
Msg #106495
Re: Paw - Name Variation Not Always Applicable for VA
Yes, our state guidelines are very lax. Sometimes I wish they were a little stricter on statutes and maybe one day, they will be.
To this day, after almost 8 years of being a notary, I still find myself looking at my notary handbook for clarification because it is so vague. I know the SOS knows my email by memory now as many times as I've contacted them in the past. Just like to be safe than sorry. Ya know?
| Reply by RickinVA on 3/18/06 10:24am
Msg #106521
Re: Paw - Name Variation Not Always Applicable for VA
Hmm! Makes me wonder about a signing I had several months ago: Docs in the name of Elsie Mae Shmoe Doe and ID in the name of Mae B Doe. Elderly lady re-fi and son was present. Both said that Elsie was her real first name which was seldom used, and B was for Bxxx and Shmoe was her maiden name. No other ID available, but she had several with that name. I refused to notarize, and it was done a couple of days later by someone who accepted that ID and backdated. I felt positive that there was nothing illegal going on. From what you indicate in your posts, I get the impression I should have notarized. Your thoughts?
Rick
| Reply by SLP_VA on 3/18/06 11:00am
Msg #106529
Re: Paw - Name Variation Not Always Applicable for VA
With a name variation like that, I would not have notarized.
The only time I will notarize with a different name variation is only if the middle initial is different and borrower states it is because one is her maiden and one was her married name and only if TC or lender says it's ok with them.
Also, if the driver's license shows Jr, Sr, etc..and docs do not or vice versa, I would still notarize the documents.
When I am in doubt like the situation you described above, no way would I had notarized that document. It does sound fishy to me too.
| Reply by SLP_VA on 3/18/06 11:05am
Msg #106531
Also RickinVA...
I've been told by the VA SOS on several occasions that if when requested to perform notarizations and it makes you feel a little uneasy, you always have the right to refuse notary service at anytime.
So I think you were correct not to notarize if you were not comfortable with the name variations. JMO..
| Reply by PAW on 3/18/06 11:20am
Msg #106536
Re: Paw - Name Variation Not Always Applicable for VA
I'm not sure what the VA requirements are for identification, but I would be uncomfortable doing it simply because there is a part of the name (on the docs) missing from the ID. That's not a variance but a completely different name. Elsie Mae Shmoe Doe may be a variation of Mae B. Doe, but then again, Mae B. Doe may be Mae Banker Doe or Mae Barker Doe, but not Mae Shmoe Doe and certainly not Elsie Mae Shmoe Doe.
The rule of thumb that I use for names on docs, is that the printed name must be contained within the name as shown on the identification. Since Elsie isn't even on the ID, I would have stopped right there.
| Reply by SLP_VA on 3/18/06 11:21am
Msg #106537
Ditto Paw! n/m
| Reply by RickinVA on 3/18/06 12:07pm
Msg #106550
Re: Ditto Paw!
Appreciate both responses. I WAS convinced they were the same person, but I couldn't prove it, so I aborted. Someone else wasn't deterred, though.
Rick
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