Posted by PJM/MI on 3/17/06 4:21pm
Msg #106356

In Regards to the Dilemma

PLease let me clarify a few things that maybe I missed in my first post:
The borrowers had BOTH signed a re-fi in Feb. of 2005. My partner attended that closing.
Wife shows up at SECOND re-fi in June of 2005 with signed, unnotarized POA.
I have TWO additional closings for TWO entirely different borrowers using POA's. (Those 2 POA's were never signed by me...the title company stated they had notarized POA's).
Next: I have made my statement to the police department. NO WHERE on the POA that they have in their possession, does it say, "Signed before me". I don't know where the wife got the POA, but is not like the usual POA's I have signed.
To double clarify....when I called the TC and asked about this un-notarized POA, they informed me that they had spoken to the hubby the night before and he had told them he had signed the POA, but he had to be in surgery at 6 am the next morning.. the day of the signing.
Since I did feel funny about the closing, I had my partner make me a copy of her journal where the husband had signed it and sent the copy of his signature in to the title company with the docs.
So for all of you.. this is not a "con" by me to all of you.. this is a legitimate situation. The REAL con was the wife.
Get this: The wife had made copies of the POA and used them to buy 3 vehicles! She forged my signature on them, as none of them had been signed, embossed, or stamped by me. That POA didn't even have a place for a notary to write in the commission expiration date. And so what does that tell us about a POA? Not too many people, including car dealers, know what a legit POA looks like or means.
I did contact my attorney, and he told me to keep him informed. Thank goodness his advice was free! (This time).
Thank you for all of the posts & the responses.

Reply by cyndi_ca on 3/17/06 4:31pm
Msg #106362

Wow!! Thanks for the clarity and sorry that I thought it was a hoax. My apologies to you.

Reply by eXpedN_TX on 3/17/06 5:06pm
Msg #106380

I have been hoping everything will work out well for you. Thanks so much for sharing your story with us. It helps all of us to continue to stay alert. Whose to say this woman who is wonted in other states doesn't come to our state. It's very nice to get the heads up. Thank you PJM!!!

Reply by celeste/ca on 3/17/06 5:17pm
Msg #106391

I am still confused, not to keep bringing this subject up, just want a better understanding, why does it matter if you made a copy of the husbands signature for the first refi, it doesn't apply to this refi you were doing, and it still doesn't explain the un-notarized POA, that is where I am baffled? Does it have to be notarized to be valid, I thought it did.

Reply by John_NorCal on 3/17/06 6:53pm
Msg #106455

Re: California POA's

Celeste, the following is from the California Probate code governing POA for California. I had posted this in the original dedlima post.

According to the California Probate Code, which may or may not be similar to other states:

4121. A power of attorney is legally sufficient if all of the
following requirements are satisfied:
(a) The power of attorney contains the date of its execution.
(b) The power of attorney is signed either (1) by the principal or
(2) in the principal's name by another adult in the principal's
presence and at the principal's direction.
(c) The power of attorney is either (1) acknowledged before a
notary public or (2) signed by at least two witnesses who satisfy the
requirements of Section 4122

So if a Calif POA does not have these elements, it is invalid. Then there is the issue of whose signature was notarized? The principal (signer of the POA) or the attorney in fact? In either case the signature has to acknowledged before the notary public. Calling the hospital, vet clinic, morgue or what ever does not cut it!

Reply by celeste/ca on 3/17/06 7:09pm
Msg #106465

Re: California POA's

Yeah, I read that too, which I don't mean to harp on PJM, but again, she/he never does state one way or the other if she/he notarized the POA. Reading again, I believe the notary just went with the word of the TC and did the signing without proper POA.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 3/17/06 5:43pm
Msg #106415

Just another ?

Just to make absolutely certain. On the latest signing when Mrs. handed you the POA that wasn't notarized, you then called the tc and let them know. This is where I get confused. Did the tc tell you it was ok for you to notarize the POA? Did you notarize that POA or just send it in with the docs?

Reply by PJM/MI on 3/18/06 5:20am
Msg #106490

Re: Just another ?

Yes,SarahBeth. The TC told me to go ahead and notarize the POA, as they spoke to the husband the night before and he told them he was signing it.
I sent in a copy of his signature from my partner's journal (that he had signed in Feb) along with the POA.
I have learned a very valuable lesson from this: NEVER accept a signed POA without the signer being right there and signing it in front of you.
Second lesson: Go with your gut feelings! If the situation feels funny.. it probably is.
By the way: Her name is KELLY DEFUR and she is wanted in the state of Michigan, State of Florida and State of Arizona. I'm sure by now she has changed her name, and I'm sure she knows how!

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 3/18/06 7:31am
Msg #106500

Let's just let it go

PJM admitted a major brain f@rt and learned from it.
$hit happens
Can happen to the best of us
I think we pretty much beat this to death yesterday
I would ask that we do not all gang up on PJM
Have a good day all.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 3/18/06 11:51am
Msg #106541

Re: Just another ?

The biggest question that still hasn't been answered is-Did you notarize the POA?