Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/21/06 10:01am
Msg #107336
I saw that, Charles, and thank you for responding.
It is not that USNA can't see past the profit motive, it is that the company was set up that way. It takes some doing for a full-steam-ahead ship to shift in another direction, especially when there's me in a rowboat trying to catch the captain's attention. Anyway. Suffice it to say we're working on it, but eNotarization has our attention for the next little while.
Peers in the other organization I belong to (Society for Technical Communication, www.stc.org) rise to the top after years of service to the Society and its members. They have proved their value, other members respect them, and they end up on committees that review standards for their peers. They don't get into leadership positions by posting on message boards, although they do that, too. They are more visible than just that, they mentor, they publish, they present, they sponsor, they serve the profession, starting at the local level, through regional, to national/international.
Anyone can become a member of STC, but only the cream rises to the top, based on standards agreed upon by the whole Society and the willingness of individuals to participate on a volunteer basis. Employed members are often reimbursed by their companies (PR for the companies) and independents usually write off business expenses. It takes time and energy, a lot of both, to serve your profession, no matter what the profession is. Do people end up in leadership positions with the intent of promoting their business or getting a better job? Of course they do. Does it hurt the total organization? No. Members with self-centered motives eventually drop out by themselves due to peer pressure and not the board-blasting kind - the peer example kind.
Being a non-profit, STC cannot recommend people to jobs (not an employment service), cannot publish lists of no-no companies (not a standards service for companies), cannot write demand letters (not a collections service), cannot set fees (not the legislature), and many other cannots. There are many activities STC cannot participate in for risk of losing its non-profit status.
STC has been discussing certification for years - one camp says "Yes, Please!" and another camp says, "No one is going to tell ME what makes a good technical communicator." NNA has taken it upon themselves to tell the nation what makes a good notary signing agent. Some agree, others disagree - that's the nature of certification. Being a non-profit or a profit organization has nothing to do with it - truthfully, anyone can set standards. The value of certification rests with the group that issues the standards. If you don't have faith in NNA, then you don't value the certification, and for the lack of a better alternative, many notaries and many companies have put their faith in NNA as something being better than nothing.
If we wait for grassroots groups to take fire, we won't live to see it, you and I, Charles. But it's a start. My next question is, can we take a look at NAR work standards? Meanwhile, I'll try to dig out some STC certification arguments pro/con to share.
Marlene, full of ideas, not much influence
[e-mail address]
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Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/21/06 10:07am
Msg #107343
OT Realtor Ethics
I don't think I was subjected to anything a realtor would have thought unethical as much as defeated by my own ignorance. For example, the inspection showed an eroded standpipe, the plumber estimated $4,000+ to fix, the realtor said I could take that amount off the asking price or give it to the buyer at settlement.
When inspection on the house I was buying showed the roof was over 20 years old and showing severe signs of wear, I asked for replacement or replacement cost. The sellers said no because the roof wasn't leaking. I bought anyway.
Why didn't my realtor tell me I could have said no, the standpipe isn't leaking, and see if the buyer bought anyway?
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Reply by Charles_Ca on 3/22/06 2:13pm
Msg #107832
I know your situation Marlene and certainly did not wish to sound like I thought you didn't do enough. I know you too well for that. I am also sure that e-notarization must be like the mythical Hydra to deal with, I don't envy your position but someone had to be the first and Pa was certainly proactive. Congratulations as the rest of the country watches what you guys do.
If you will e-mail me your physical address I'll be glad to send you the NAR and CAR materials. I agree with you mostly but I don't think we see peers quite the same way. In my book, peers are not necessarily the elite, they have a good grasp of their functions have good experience and are the mean members of the group. The elite of any organization would probably have a different view of members in an organization than the mean. Peers are generally defined as a cross section of functioning members. Elitism also has its pitfalls and in my opinion any extreme is not good for the business whether it be the bottom or the top. I believe that your concept of using the "cream" may cause too much restriction and impact the businesses that notaries support. You must remember that notaries are a service organization and have a very narrow function. Standards are usually set by committee and are set originally and then tweaked to get the desired results. Once the standards are tweaked they can be administered by almost anyone. In the business dependent on notaries it would be very easy to go back to using regualr notaires and not NSA's since there really is no requirement to have an NSA to have a completed transaction.
I am sure that you notice a tendency on the forum of certain people to over-intellectualize the business, question everything and sometimes completely lacking common sense. This can restrict the transaction of loans and real estate if applied incorrectly.
There is another problem that occurs. Since the function of a notary signing agent is a business convenience and not a governed necessity such as notaries are, getting every NSA to subscribe to a standard would be an impossible task. However if title companies established minimum standards to be followed then it would easier to regulate. The appraisal business comes to mind. I have been an appraiser for years but I don't do many appraisals any more because the task is now fraught with pitfalls and I concentrate my time on the business that creates the most money for the time invested. Apraisers have also gotten to be a commodity whihc can be shopped for thereby restricting the amount of money you can make. Real estate, in the area I operate in, is a personal service and there is only one of me: if you want MY service then you have to pay MY rate because that is the only way you will get my service. However there are several organizations of appraisers. The best known is the Appraisal Institute with their MAI designation but when they started to become restrictive in their membership requirements competing associations cropped up and the MAI is losing ground as the premier appraisal organization. The states now define the minimum standards for appraisers after the 1986 savings bank debacle. I don't see such a momentous occasion ever happening in the notary business. With the states defining the minumum standards there is no longer a burning need for the Appraisal Institute
Anyway, I don't think an elitist group should be establishing minimum standards for NSA certification and we are looking for minimum standards because at this point we have none and anyone browsing this forum with an iota of common sense would be painfully aware that we don't.
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