Posted by Anonymous on 3/31/06 9:23am
Msg #110028

Msgs #109853 and 109931

Sorry for posting anon, but there are those who would recognize me and cause problems.
I have worked for a particular TC in my area for the past nine years and recently was cut back to 10% of my usual volume as they have had 4 or more of their employees get Notary Commissions. This TC has, in the past, had non commissioned employees conduct closings and had an 'in house' Notary affix their signature and seal. The wives of the owners, daughters, sons in law and others have done this numerous times without the benefit of a Notary Commission. Now they have their own, somewhat knowledgable employees doing 90% of all closings.
As regards the ineptitude of bank closers and poorly performing Notaries, the only way to correct this, folks is through the SOS in your state. There are no requirements, educational or otherwise for becoming a Commissioned Notary. It's like an auto mechanic being appointed a district judge. Not that there's anything wrong with being an auto mechanic. Absolutely anyone can become a legit Notary without any formal education.....drop out of school in the eighth grade?? NO PROBLEM...just have your state representative approve your application and you're on your way to riches you never imagined!! I seriously look for the day when lenders and TCs will send all docs to the bwrs and advise them to go to their local used car dealer for Notarizations. Instead of us talking about standardized fees, refusing closings etc. etc. we really need to approach our state representatives and SOSs to stop the assinine practice of handing out Commissions like they were sales brochures. There should be a required course and test to be commissioned and a program of retesting on a regular basis. In addition, there should be a licensing fee commensurate with the value of the office. (Look what happened to the Real Estate licensing after the same situation occured) This is the only way to save our livlihood and the perceived integrity of our office.

Reply by Drakester_IA on 3/31/06 9:35am
Msg #110031

I agree 100% of some kind of testing and classes. Our state dept. in IA is going around the state giving classes and edorsing more Notaries to sign up. I think I will be having an after class conversation with the trainer who is from state office. IA currently has some 55000 Notaries and we want more LOL. heck I think our population is jut under 3,000,000. Can you imagine 55,000 notaries in Detroit.

Reply by Les_CO on 3/31/06 10:13am
Msg #110035

I agree! In my opinion, all notaries (and "Signing Agents" in particular) need to be licensed, as well as commissioned. There should be some sort of testing required. (Yes, I HATE tests too!) I also would like to see some sort of "National Standard" (this, I think impossible). And MOST OF ALL! I think that "Signing Services", or signing companies should be REGULATED! Something like Title Companies. Maybe they should all be required to post some kind of Bond? And have "Escrow Accounts" (like TC's and Realtors) No "commingling of funds" etc.? Should come under "interstate commerce" laws? Not totally unregulated as they are now. Anyone (ex-con's, Illegal aliens, foreign companies, etc.) with a phone can start a SS's! Get people to work for them for free, with only a vague promise (but no intention) to pay, leaving the gullable unpaid "contractor" (notary) with virtually no recourse. This totally unregulated business if an open INVITATION to FRAUD! The good, ethical "Signing" companies out there (and there are some) would welcome this regulation, if for no other reason than to put their deadbeat competition out of business. If you as Notaries think it's hard to compete against $50 'newbies', think of how hard it is to compete against a company that pays NOTHING!

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/31/06 9:55am
Msg #110034

I see you're posting from Pennsylvania, which has a requirement for 3-hours of basic notary education for anyone who was not an active notary on July 1, 2003. Anyone who was an active notary on that date was grandfathered in as of the old law and never needs to take a course

So Pennsylvania has a notary population of educated vs. not, unless a notary took a class on her/her own initiative.

Anyone who is working with state legislatures for notary education, you should make sure the legislation is CLEAR and PRECISE as to who gets educated when and who may be excluded and why. And good luck with that!

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/31/06 12:58pm
Msg #110078

I definitely agree. I am sorry to hear this has happened to you! I have been to the capitol with my concerns. Drop me a line if you want to discuss.

Reply by John_NorCal on 3/31/06 1:28pm
Msg #110083

Very good points. California has tightened up its notary laws since the days where you could just send in an application and be appointed a notary public . The procedure of finger printing for real estate transactions actually started in Los Angeles county back in the 80's due to all the fraud that was going on, remember the S&L scandals? March Fong Eu who became the Secretary of State liked the finger printing and afterwards it became a state requirement. Our state education requirements, while not perfect in my opinion, are a good begining. These all came about because of problems that were rampant and were publicized and then acted on.
Now it's time that organizations at the local level sound an alarm to regulate this industry, as much as I dislike regulation, so that there is an honest value that is beyond reproach. The question is where do we start? Others on this board have voiced an opinion of starting a new organization. Of course that takes a lot of money and time.
Not knowing the corporate status of the NNA, or any other notary association, I would think that is a place to start. If any of them have tax exempt status, they need to be brought to task to act in the public interest. Not in a profit making venture of churning out notaries day after day. I also believe that each state should enact legislation to limit the amount of commissioned notaries public based on a states population. What is the sense in having a ratio, as I once estimated for California , of 1 notary for 130 people?

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/31/06 3:30pm
Msg #110117

The Secretary of State, or whoever is charged with oversight of the Notary Division in a state, is usually given the discretion of determining however many notaries are needed in the state. For example, the Notary Public Law in Pennsylvania says "The Secretary of the Commonwealth is hereby authorized to appoint and commission. . .as many notaries public as, in the secretary's judgment, the interest of the public may require. . ."

Reply by Drakester_IA on 3/31/06 3:43pm
Msg #110118

In most states that is the case where it is at the descretion of the Secretary of state but with a little push hopefully we can make them think a little.
Having said that I personally want to make sure other new notaries are better informed before they are commisioned. As I stated before there is no testing or studying for the State of IA

Reply by Nate_MN on 3/31/06 3:44pm
Msg #110119

I understand that you are mad that your volumn got cut, but I don't think education requirements would have helped you. The title company had employees that, do to things slowing down probably have more time on their hands now, so they got them their commissions and are having them do closings. Possibly even costing the title company less, and preventing them from laying off employees. What do you expect? Being a signing agent does not require a vast amount of education and in my opinion never will. Therefore it is going to continue to be a business with little to no barriers to entry. I also think this trend will continue for the near future. There are two many signing agents, I agree, but it will take some time for the market to lower the number.

Reply by Les_CO on 3/31/06 4:23pm
Msg #110127

Re: Msgs #109853 and 109931 n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 3/31/06 4:25pm
Msg #110128

Re: Nate

Just a comment… my opinion… IT may NOT take a great deal of formal education to do the job of a Signing Agent well. But it does take a VAST amount of knowledge. Knowledge about all forms of Real Estate transactions; the many and varied types of loans; and how they are used; all of the different documents and forms, and what happens to them, and how they may affect the borrower (or his property); some legal knowledge (like swearing in witnesses before the court) and other varied Notary law; Don’t forget knowledge of laws in OTHER STATES, that affect recording, and real estate law.( Even lawyers are not required to know that, just the law of the state they pass the bar) and one must have GREAT people skills, to deal with all the miscommunication that happens during this very complicated process. Not to mention some sales ability! For WHAT do we do if not SELL our services. DON’T SELL YOURSELF SHORT!!!!!!!

Reply by Anonymous on 4/3/06 1:44am
Msg #110489

Re: Nate

Save yourself the aggrevasion. Classes are now mandated in California and the notaries are still flowing in. So now not only the NNA is making false promises, so are the instuctors in the classes. I would not be suprised if the instructors went to the SOS to lobby for these mandatory classes so they could profit and they are making a bundle!