Posted by NJ_Notary on 3/20/06 8:35pm
Msg #107239
NAN
Ok Folks,
This is just me day dreaming about a day when we (notaries near and far) have an organization that we belong to and can be proud of. I think such an organization must have the following elements:
1)Presence at the local level
2)Stance at the state level and
3)Voice at the National level
Hmmm does this sound familiar? Well yes it does. One of the most intriguing and well thought out Organizations is the National Association of Realtors(R). There is all of the above three.
As a notary organization we(notaries near and far) must be set by a common policy known as the "Code of Ethics" with Honesty, Integrity, and Committment as our foundation.
If we used the guidance from from the structure of NAR, not neccessarily copying them, but utilizing their ideas thougths and theories as a foundation we can really have an amazing organization. NAR realized that all laws and things are different in different states and markets. To best be of service to those who use their service they must be local to know the market, take stance at the state level to lobby for the best in the state for the client and 3 Have a national voice to lobby, take stance, and collaborate with what is best for the clients that those who are members of the organization serve.
Another way to set just any old Notary Public apart and a true professional Notary Public apart is by using the word Notarizor(R). Think about it. How often do you here folks refer to the name Realtor as per say just Real Estate Agent. A Realtor means so much more just as the word Notarizor(R) can. In other words while those who practice real estate sales are all agents only those who adhere to a strict code of ehtics and are memember of a trade organization known as NAR can use the word and be referred to as a Realtor.
I truly believe that while anyone can be just an old Notary and Notarizor(R) is someone who has training, expereince, and adheres to a strict code of ethics.
Ok enough of my rambling on about a dream to be one day (all great things started as a dream, just look at our founding fathers & mothers ).
What is everyones thoughts?
My appolgies in advance for my gramticall and spelling errors, I am trying to do a few things tonight for work and just taking a break and need to get back and dont have that much time to proofread. Im sorry guys  Ill do better next time.
Love ya guys and "sistas"
God bless!
| Reply by Pamela on 3/21/06 12:02am
Msg #107275
Nj Notary,
Nj Notary,
I began real estate sales in August, 2005 as a "Realtor". Although there are many Realtors who are ethical (such as myself), there are many more who couldn't care less about ethics or morals! Any agent or broker can be a Realtor, as long as they pay their membership fees! The term just sounds nice!
But I do understand your message! Infact, I've brought this subject up (twice) before, on this board.
May God Bless You too!
Pam
| Reply by FlaMac on 3/21/06 6:22am
Msg #107287
Sounds good..there are several in the making...
but they sure are taking a long time to get up and running. We really need a non profit association.
| Reply by PAW on 3/21/06 7:51am
Msg #107298
While I think a 'professional' organization is needed, I just don't see it happening like NAR. Why? Notaries are licensed, commissioned by a state government and are regulated by a government agency (SOS in many cases). Realtors(R) are not. Granted, they are licensed by a state to perform a function as most professionals and trades are, but their actions are not administered by a government agency like those of a Notary Public. Realtor(R) is not a public office; Notary Public is. There is an inherent code of ethics and conduct for any public official, including Notaries Public.
Now, a professional association of Signing Agents would be more in line with the NAR model. Obviously, membership into the PASA (Professional Association of Signing Agents) would require that the member have a Notary license/commission. I submit that it would be a major undertaking for anyone or group of individuals to formulate, build and administer such an organization. And with some very high initial, and possibly unrecoverable costs associated with the start up.
| Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/21/06 10:12am
Msg #107347
Re: right, right, right on all counts
However, the organization could help those notaries who are handed a handbook and a stamp and told, "Go forth and notarize." It could emphasize education, evaluate and recommend courses. It could help write legislation. It could be a clearinghouse for information and research for all states.
But the startup. . .oooh, yes.
| Reply by NJ_Notary on 3/21/06 10:42am
Msg #107360
Hi folks,
Thanks for the opinions. Im glad we are on the same page with most things, but I would like to express my opinions on a few more things if you dont mind. Please dont slam me to harshly. All real estate agents, brokers, broker-salespersons, broker associates, etc. are governed and regulated by some dept within the state the licensee is licensed. In the state of NJ it is the NJ Real Estate Commssion, in other states it may be the SOS or Dept. of Licensing. While a Realtor is not regulated it is regulated by a strict code of ethics with that Realtor must adhere to. In addition, to be a Realtor one must be licensed as a Salesperson, Broker, Broker-Salesperon, et. al.. One may not be a Realtor with out holding one of those license. To be a Realtor(R) one doesnt only have to pay a fee or dues. To properly inform you a the Realtor(R) MUST be licensed as well as take code of ethics training to become a Realtor(R). Im very sorry that you have unethical folks in the market area that you are in Pamela; however, you shouldn't complain when you don't file a code of ethics compliant against those individuals. That is why there is a code of ethics... to make Realtor(R) adhere to strict code and to make Realtors(R) more professional, educated, have more integrity, honesty, and commitment than any old agent. Realtors(R) are regulated by their peers and have a checks and balances system just as our governement does.
The principle behind NAR is to have a voice for real estate just as the Notary industry needs a voice that it presently in my opinion does not have. I agree that while a Realtor(R) is not a license such as Real Estate agent or notary public, if you follow the history you will find that many of the licensure laws in many states are molded by the NAR code of ethics. This is not an opinion, but rather a fact that is not a secret. NAR has major influence on each and every states regulatory committee. If they didnt a prime example would be continuing education.
To have notaries more professional we must have such an organization. I am not sure if a Professional Association of Signing Agents is the best thing as per say a Professional Notary Organization. Remember we are a Notary Public first a Signing Agent second. I feel maybe an alliance or a division within the notary organization devoted to signing agents would be best (ie NAR and the commercial Realtor(R) alliance or a committee devetoed to one particular thing, in this case a signing agent committee).
NAR has a major influence on the way real estate is done, just as a Notary Organization can, should, and most importantly will one day.
Ok enough of my rambling on.
love ya guys and sistas, your the best.
God bless.
| Reply by PAW on 3/21/06 11:40am
Msg #107378
Rebutal -
>>> Remember we are a Notary Public first a Signing Agent second. <<<
I completely disagree with that statement, and it is because of my disagreement that I don't think an association like Realtor(R) will work for Notaries Public, but may work for Signing Agents. Yes we are a Notary Public **and** a Signing Agent. One is not more important than the other in this endeavor. They are two separate and distinct functions within the loan signing arena and both must be done with complete understanding of the requirements, laws and needs of the job.
As for a Notary professional organization, as far as I'm concerned there already is one. The American Society of Notaries. Why not build on an existing foundation that is recognized already, rather than reinvent the wheel? The same with a professional organization for signing agents. The Signing Registry already exists and can be expanded.
Until such legislation is forthcoming to nationalize Notaries Public, getting a national organization with as much influence as the NAR is, imo, an almost impossible task. Heck, it's even next to impossible to get a statewide organization with teeth. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it is a monumental task. Beef up what exists.
| Reply by NJ_Notary on 3/21/06 12:21pm
Msg #107392
Re: Rebutal -
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the intellectual conversation, I do greatly appreciate it and hope I have not upset you in any way. Its good for the brain to get things rolling. as far as a Notary Public vs Signing Agent, maybe I can only speak for myself and NJ (due to laws etc.), but correct me if I am wrong,but do be a signing agent one must be a commissioned Notary Public. I can not neccessarily have my best friend who is not a Notary closing my refi, Reverse (if i qualified), et. al. because he wouldn't be able to complete the Notarial Portions of the loan. My further understanding with this in mind, how often do we see on here where TCs and SS call a signing agent and ask them to back date or forward date( less common occurance) documents? As a signing agent one may say ok I will do it ( not that you would or I would becuase we have both knowledge, integrity, and go strictly by the book), but a Notary (a competent one atleast) would know that you can not back date a Notarial Act(s). To be a good signing agent one must first be a great Notary Public. It is the foundation for being a Signing Agent. In other words they need to know exactly what a jurat, ack, aff, et. al is. A prime is a cardiothorasic surgeon. To be a great Cardiothorasic one must have a very stond foundation in cardiology not just as a surgeon. In other words he/she must be both a well equiped surgeon and cardiOLOGIST (I put the last few letters in caps, not to seem like im shoutting but to notate the difference between Cardiologist and Cardiothorasic Surgeon).
I whole heartedly agree that The American Society of Notaries is a wonderful organization; however, I feel as though there can be a better voice for the industry. Again I go back to the general public who proceive the name Realtor(R) vs Real Estate Agent. How often do you see NAR market its organization. Yes i agree ASN is nowhere near as large or have the budget that NAR does, but I believe it or another organization can. I also agree that we should not reinvent the wheel, but rather Improve it. How often does Good Year come out with better and improved tires? (ok just trying to get a litle humor and chuckle in there as well)
I dont think that it is healthy for legistlation to nationalize Notaries Public. Each state has its own regs and guidelines and the Notary is regulated under different departments. The only way to do such is if the Government both federal and state took a stance as they had in 1943 with the South-Eastern Underwriters Decision and the McCarren-Ferguson Act(Public Law 15). These were a decision and act that were passed by congress that afirmed that while the fed gov. has the right to regulate insurance, it would not do so as long as the states enacted the same kind of anti-trust laws that the fed gov has passed. At nerate the only way it would properly work is with these decisions and acts in mind. Of course we could debate state vs fed government and their powers, etc. but that is A WHOLE other topic which lord knows I wouldnt be able to have enough time to get into. lol
My appologies if my articulation is not the best on this, my thoughts are rambling in my head and im trying to type them while I think. Thanks again thought for the intellectual conversation, it does my brain good... It makes me know I still have one and can think on my own 
Take care Paul and God bless and Happy Signing
| Reply by PAW on 3/21/06 5:22pm
Msg #107524
Re: Rebutal -
I certainly agree that a "requirement" for being a Signing Agent should be to be a licensed or commissioned Notary Public. I didn't mean to imply otherwise, and apologize if I did. One goes hand in hand with the other, but one isn't more important than the other. It like being a commercial truck driver. You need to be licensed (CDL) in order to drive the truck. But there's more to the job than just driving (in many cases). Same with being an airline pilot. You need to have your "ticket" from the FAA, but there's a whole lot more to the job that what the license allows.
And technically, since there is NO requirements for what a Signing Agent is, except in the minds of the hiring company, a signing agent does may have to be a notary. I have done signings where I did not notarize one signature. I presented on the documents, explained what I could and after the borrowers signed them, passed them to the notary for notarization. Of course, if there were a national signing agent organization, then a 'standard' could be established. That 'standard' would have to be bought into by all the title companies, lenders and signing services to be meaningful and enforceable. Not a small undertaking. (And I know from experience that lenders are not the easiest group of people to get a consensus of opinion when trying to work together in a consortium.)
I'm not saying that it's not a worth while endeavor. I think its a great idea, conceptually. I just don't see it becoming reality any time soon.
I will agree, and concede, that a good signing agent must first be a good notary. But saying that a signing agent is first a notary and then a signing agent doesn't hold in my mind. A good signing agent has already been a notary first. (Or should be.) Additional training has provided them to be a signing agent. You wear two hats as a Notary Signing Agent, at different times, performing different functions. To be a good NSA, you must do both well. Actually, thinking about it, you should be a signing agent first and foremost, because in that role you have more at stake. There is no signing agent insurance if you fail to have the note signed properly, or you screw up the RTC and the lender is stuck with a 3 year period instead of 3 days. The SA job is much more complex than the notarization of signatures and certainly cannot be underplayed.
| Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/21/06 1:24pm
Msg #107426
Re: Why ASN, Paul?
Why ASN over any of the other membership associations like NNA, USNA, NLI, NANA, AAN - I obviously have my leanings, but what is best about ASN? Thanks.
| Reply by PAW on 3/21/06 5:36pm
Msg #107526
Re: Why ASN, Paul?
ASN has been around just about forever. It and NNA are the only two organizations that are recognize by just about every state in their literature. I'm not thrilled with the NNA, who basically have given up on the Notary Public to reap the benefits of the NSA. The ASN, is still a non-profit organization for the Notary Public. They have succumbed to the need to address Signing Agent stuff, not that they want to, but because they have to. And their focus is narrow, but their outlook is broad.
It really doesn't make any difference what organization is broadened for the betterment of the whole, but it has to be a focused organization for the Notary Public. The NNA was like that until Sue Pense sold out to them. I'm so sorry she did. The NNA could have become what we all want instead of what "they" want. [/soapbox]
| Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/22/06 12:50pm
Msg #107779
Re: Why ASN, Paul?
Thanks, PAW. Everything you say makes sense. USNA is trying to become what NNA is not, but it's a long haul.
| Reply by Pamela on 3/21/06 12:00pm
Msg #107387
Re: NAN NJ Notary
NJ Notary,
Again, I stand to differ with the "Realtor" term. Each month the California Department of Real Estate sends a bulletin to its agents and brokers, which list literally hundreds of persons, who have been disciplined, suspended etc. . .for misconduct. Many are Realtors.
I know that nothing is perfect, yet, there is this misconception that all "Realtors" are at a higher standard. The National Association of Realtors and California Association of Realtors are Very Powerful political machines. It's just that simple. These organizations make it almost mandatory for everyone to join (ethical or not) in order to do business.
Yes, Realtors do pledge to a higher standard and there is "optional" training ( and a mandatory orientation, where the pledge is given). Nevertheless, the Department of Real Estate also requires all agents and brokers to have ongoing hours of ethics training.
Last year, I contacted both the NAR and CAR to file a complaint on a Realtor and was told that the Department of Real Estate handles such matters! That neither the NAR or CAR is set up to discipline!
Now regarding the experience issue. On August 15, 2005 I signed with a real estate company as a new sales agent. On August 17th, I paid my Realtor membership fees. Therefore, according to both the NAR and CAR, I am now an "experienced" Realtor, with only "two" days on the job!
Also, it seems that every other agent and their cousin, are calling themselves "Realtor". Actually, many in the public think that Realtor is synonymous for real estate agent!
By the way, I'm in Los Angeles County.
Have a Great Day,
Pam
| Reply by Dennis Gaggini, Jr. on 3/21/06 12:41pm
Msg #107395
Re: NAN NJ Notary
Hi Pam,
Im very sorry to hear your experiences; however, I must clarrify a few things for you...
1) yes there is optional training
2) yes there is mandatory orientation
3) yes there is mandatory training.... its the Contiuning education of the Code of Ethics every for yrs.
4)Yes you may have been a member once you paid your dues, however you were considered a temporary member until you completed your code of ethics orientation (in other words if you dont complete it your kicked out/suspened until such time). In addition if you do not complete the mandatory Continuing Ed from NAR you will be suspended as a Realtor until you complete such. This is not a CAR reg, but rather a NAR reg that is clearly written in its bylaws. Each state and each county/parish Board of Realtors(R) has its own by laws, but the NAR bylaws are the most important and are the ones that are superior.
5)Not every complaint is a one that needs to be addressed only by CAR, NAR, or your local board, but rather the states regulatory dept/commission.
6) I feel as though you should go back and complete the Code of ethics training again and speak with your board's executive director/committe in regards to completing a code of ethics compliant to have a better understand as how everything is structured and organized.
7) Read the Bylaws of NAR to better understand things and the way they are structured. Its really an impressive thing.
Sorry to seem harsh, Im not trying to come across this way, but it does not appear that your proud to be a Realtor(R) which is a shame. NAR has done many things for you (you may not know it now since ur a newer agent and this is totally fine and ok), but they. I have great pride in calling myself a Realtor(R) for various reason and so should you, but it doesnt appear that you do which is a very big shame sense all of the wonderful things that NAR does for you, me, and the rest of its members.
The name Realtor(R) is a powerful word that many know. But NAR has contiunally faught and always won on the exclusivity of who can and cant use the name. Notice the "(R)" i put next to the name. I do this to make sure that its known that this is a registered trademark that only certain people can use. I dont know exactly if I can use the Registered trademark on here not becuase of agreements or anything but rather technology wise so I use the (R) to symbolize it instead. Furthermore, you should as well invest sometime to look at the surveys that NAR has had done. You would be suprised how many people would know what an agent is and what a Realtor(R) is.
Also if you ever get the chance, I strongly suggest either participating in the prof. standards or grievence committees on your board and going to the education seminar for the committee members. As a past member of the State's prof standard committee and present grievence committee its very interesting.
Again, Im sorry to sound hard Im truly not trying to come across that way, but rather only help fellow member of this board out. I know you would do the same for me. So if I can help in any way I will, thus I made suggestions.
Love ya "sista"
God bless.
| Reply by NJ_Notary on 3/21/06 12:43pm
Msg #107397
Re: NAN NJ Notary
I am speaking with you, Marlene, and Paul since I respect you so much more than another that posted on here. I feel the same way others here do.
God bless.
| Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/21/06 1:28pm
Msg #107430
Re: NAN NJ Notary
Keep your eyes on the prize, not on the detractors.
1)Presence at the local level
2)Stance at the state level and
3)Voice at the National level
| Reply by NJ_Notary on 3/21/06 1:51pm
Msg #107438
Re: NAN NJ Notary
Hi Marlene:
I hope you or noone else is mad at me
God Bless
| Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/21/06 2:36pm
Msg #107451
Re: NAN NJ Notary
I have no reason to be.
| Reply by PAW on 3/21/06 5:41pm
Msg #107529
Nor I n/m
| Reply by NJ_Notary on 3/21/06 6:40pm
Msg #107537
Thanks guys I appreciate it
Im glad we all can respect one anothers opinion on here. I have to clearify for the comment above though about who I respect. I was refering to the "you" as in Pamela. I dont want her to think I do respect her opinion becuase i greatly do.
| Reply by Pamela on 3/21/06 5:22pm
Msg #107525
NJ Notary Excuse Me!
Oh! Excuse me!
When you asked for "eveyone's thoughts" in your original post, I thought you meant everyone!
You are suggesting that notaries form a solid, political organization, yet you respect only two notaries "more than another that posted here".
Believe me! I will never again knowingly respond to one of your posts. . .!
lol,
Pam
| Reply by NJ_Notary on 3/21/06 6:44pm
Msg #107538
PAMELA PLEASE READ!!!!
Hi Pam,
First let me appologize the confusion. When I refered to the "more than another that posted here" if you noticed I said prior to that "You" refering to you Pamela, Marlen, and PAW. I can see how it seemed as though i was saying "you" as in refering to Marlene, but it was actualy the three of you that I was speaking about in whose i respected. It was "Mac"'s opinion that I did not respect as much .
Do you understand what I am tryig to say? I didnt articulate it that well in my original post and can see how u thought i had left you out. My appologies. I hadn't left you out and Im sorry you felt that I had.
Hope we can still be friends.
God bless.
| Reply by Pamela on 3/21/06 6:00pm
Msg #107534
Dennis Gaggini, Jr. Thank You!
Good Afternoon!
Thank you for your reply!
Yes, I have completed all the requirements regarding the Realtor status.
Regarding the Realtor complaint, I spoke to my broker at length, regarding the situation and it was in his opinion, that I should not "worry about such things. . .that it would take up too much of your time to ensue. . .". (by the way, I cut my ties with this company).
In a different situation, another "Realtor" told me that I was "too ethical" and that "your eyes should be on the money".
Dennis, just because something is "legal" does not mean that it is ethical!
As in any profession, there is going to be both good and bad. It's just that, the name "Realtor" should not be looked upon, as some type of royal title!
I've seen contracts, where "Realtors" have talked somone into buying a property, when
they can barely afford food on the table! Of course it can be said that everyone is responsible for themselves (However, the federal government is coming down hard on "lenders" and their predatory practices!).
Enough venting for today ("smile" !
Thanks again, for your reply. It is very Much Appreciated!
May God Bless You too!
Pam
| Reply by Dennis Gaggini, Jr. on 3/21/06 6:47pm
Msg #107539
Thank You!
Hi Pamela,
Im glad that you left your former broker. You deserve a much better broker than that. I can't believe he/she told you that. What a ninkumpop. (for a lack of better words) :-D
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/21/06 6:30pm
Msg #107536
Pam, the DRE is
You said, ***Last year, I contacted both the NAR and CAR to file a complaint on a Realtor and was told that the Department of Real Estate handles such matters! That neither the NAR or CAR is set up to discipline!***
The DRE is the state government agency who looks into these matters, Pam! It's not that NAR or CAR doesn't car, it's they are an organization, a trade organization. The DRE is a government agency set up to regulate not only Brokers and Realtors, but Subdividers as well.
The DRE can also turn issues over to the local DA's offices for prosecution.
Being surprised that the DRE is governing real estate people, instead of CAR, is like being surprised that the AMA doesn't prosecute doctors for malpractice.
The two organizations you mentioned serve many purposes; and yes CAR has huge political clout in California. Still, in my years in this business I've also found CAR to be extremely proactive especially in legislation. The serve a purpose in serving the public as well as other Realtors and Agents, IMO.
Im in Ventura and have been a DRE consultant (for subdivisions) for many years. Feel free to email me offline if you like - I see you're in LA; we're close.
| Reply by NJ_Notary on 3/21/06 6:48pm
Msg #107540
Re: Pam, the DRE is
Hi titlegal,
Thanks for your help in making my point. You articulated it much better than I did.
THX
God Bless.
| Reply by Pamela on 3/21/06 10:19pm
Msg #107575
TitleGalCA
Good Evening!
Thank You for your replying!
It isn't that I do not understand the function of the Department of Real Estate (I filed a complaint with them in 1992), it was the thought that both the NAR and CAR needed to know about the behaviour of one (actually two) of their members. That after an investigation, the title "Realtor" could be taken away for a period of time.
One example is a Realtor in the West Los Angeles area. She is both a broker and loan officer (she owns her own company). A young married couple had purchased a home about a year before and wanted to reduce their monthly payments (by ths time the husband was no longer employed due to a work injury). They went to this Realtor/Loan Officer for assistance. However, instead of reducing their monthly payments, she increased it by almost $400.00!
When they received the new documents and told her they could not make the payments, she said okay, and then listed the house on the market a few days later!
When the couple termination their relationship with her (and hired me), they decided to continue with the sale of their home, but wanted to buy another one in a different county (and with payments that were within their budget).
I referred them to my loan officer. After the credit report was pulled, it was discoverd that this woman was repeatedly running their credit report over and over and over . . . . On one particular day, she ran the report 13 times! When the couple complained to her she came to their home and literally cursed them out!
I immediately informed my broker but was told it would not be in my interest to report her to DRE. That the couple should do it.
This is only one example of an unethical Realtor that I have dealt with since August, 2005 (when I first began real estate sales).
And it really bothers me when the term "Realtor" is used as if they are the "Cream of the crop"! I used to think that Realtors were special (and set apart from the "regular" agents), but not anymore!
Of course, I have met many nice Realtors, BUT there are many others who should be stripped of the title "Realtor"! Meaning that, All Realtors ARE NOT ethical and do not uphold to a higher standard (trained or not)!
Again, I Thank You and Have a Blessed Evening!
Will talk to you later,
Pam
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/21/06 10:51pm
Msg #107578
Re: TitleGalCA
Hi Pam. I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the title "Realtor". I just don't know, so won't represent anything in regard to that. There are others on the board that are experts, one is Charles_CA.
Here's what bothers me: it seems you have a personal beef with CAR or, a Realtor, not sure which but it comes through. You sound angry, which could be a call to do something about what made you angry, or to help reform what's wrong with the system you're describing.
Regardless, when you said, ***They went to this Realtor/Loan Officer for assistance. However, instead of reducing their monthly payments, she increased it by almost $400.00!*** I'm not sure how a Realtor could make a payment increase, the borrower had to agree to it, without knowing the terms of the loan. That is the Borrowers fault, not the Realtors, no matter how unethical they are.
Anyhow, just my thoughts. I'd suggest you get very involved in the CAR/NAR chapters in your area to effect a change. No trade organization can patrol everyone - much like the lousy NSA's that we've all run across.
| Reply by Pamela on 3/22/06 12:28am
Msg #107617
Re: TitleGalCA
Hi Again!
You are correct!
The borrowers should have know better but they were not as "educated" as they should have been. This is the reason why it was much easier for this Realtor/Loan Officer to take advantage of the situation.
Actually, I am taking a break from sales. I've decided to build up my notary signing business and to train to become a loan officer. I will also be returning to school later this year to complete the broker's courses.
Yes, I am still angry (sorry it shows)!
Reason for this anger: As stated earlier,this same couple had me list their home. Buyers were found for the property. These buyers were represented by an experienced Realtor. What seemed like an easy transaction turned into a nightmare! I literally paid out of my own pockets to make sure that all codes etc. . .were met. However, this Realtor still kept making neverending demands!
No matter what was done, she was dissatisified. Lied about documents not being received (although I gave them to her personally), refused to submit other forms, told me that she suggested to the buyers not to buy the property because there might be future problems, called the appraisor and inquired as to how could he give his approval, when it was "obvious that more work needed to be done on the house", telephoned the lender as to why they were going to approve the funds, said that the house was not up to code (even though an inspector had said that everything was fine (she didn't like the inspector).
My brokers stated that all "Realtors from that(her) office" were difficult to deal with, and that this was the "norm for them"!
Both Escrow and the lender told me not to worry, that everything was fine but could not understand the other Realtor's behaviour . (Turns out that this Realtor had listed a similiar house, in a different section of town, about a month into escrow, and she wanted these same buyers to purchase her property!).
Anyway, escrow fell through in December (the loan docs. expired and the buyers would not
re-sign new ones). My sellers were furious and stated that ALL Realtors were alike. That we (including the escrow officer) had all lied to them about the property!
I sought legal advice from three different real estate attorneys (including CAR) and was told that I was entitled to my commission (plus all fees paid to help the seller's sell their home). That if the sellers would no longer let me list their home, they were in breach of contract, and a lien should be placed on it (However, I had no control over this, as the listing belonged to the broker, and not to me, the sales agent.).
The escrow officer told me that she would be receiving her commission (via the buyer's deposit) because it was the buyers who stopped the process and that I was also entitled to my commission.
My broker agreed that I was entitled to a commission BUT did not want to take legal action due to the cost (and their reputation in the community)!That it was better to take this as a learning experience and to move on! And that no, I should not do a complaint to DRE!
TitleGal, I advertised this property for several weeks in both newspapers and magazines! I paid the permit fees etc. . .(and was told that I would receive these expenses at the close of escrow)!
Each weekend (including Fridays), I had opened house until it sold! And, I took the sellers literally hundreds of miles away, to other counties looking for new homes (and paid for their family dinners)!
And when all is said and done, I receive no commission or reimbursement for housing fees paid!
If I had made the error, I could understand not receiving my commission. But due to another Realtor deliberately trying to make a deal fall through, so that she could make a sale, makes me angry and my broker (s) not willing to help makes me furious!
So enough said! I think I have really vented enough on this notary board about my REALTOR expeience!
Blessings!
Pam
| Reply by Anonymous on 3/21/06 11:24pm
Msg #107589
Re: TitleGalCA
HI titlegal,
I agree with you in many ways. Im sorry if I accidentally offened Pamela earlier, but she wont even listen to my explanation on the misunderstanding. Do you see how it was misunderstood? If I have done something to someone Disrepsectful I want to appologize and want to make sure the person knows that I am truly sorry. Do you feel as though I did anything wrong? TIA
Moreover, the Prof standards committee and board of directors determine the punishment is just for the Realtor(R). While I agree with what the broker/loan officer did in the above example was totally wrong and unethical lets get a few things straight. 1) Common Sense falls on that of the borrower/homeowner. As the honorable Judge Judy once said "Beauty fades, dumb is forever." Why on earth would they even consider listing their property with her after what she had done? Again, beauty fades folks, dumb is forever. Dont pee on my leg and tell me its raining. One must use commons, but then again Common Sense is not so Common anymore.
As far as the credit being run, I would report her to the proper authorities and regulatory departments if I were the sellers/borrowers. They must give her authorization to do such. In addition, if you ask me they may be able to bring her up on identity theft or something of the likes since she ran it without their permission and negatively effected their credit. Every time a person's credit is run their FICO score goes down generally. I agree that while you may having wanted to help them, it was their choice to do the complaining. You were not wronged in any fashion by the broker/loan officer, the seller/buyer was. I know you would like to just as I would if I were you, but it is what it is. If these are the only facts to the situation and the facts are not changed the no its not your right, privledge, or stance to make a complaint against the broker/loan officer, ONLY the seller/borrower themselves. Again, I know you want to just as I would want to but we can't; thats life unfortunately .
If you have been effected by other Realtors(R) in transactions or business activities, stop complaing to us and start taking the proper procedures to file ethics complaints againt the individuals. If your not sure how to go about it, please let me know and I will gladly assist you and help you with the process of going about filing a compliant. I would also be able to give you a guide that is often used to help folks know the procedures when making a complaint. I am ALWAYS here for a fellow NotROT member and Realtor(R). Apart we are just snowflakes. Together we can make one powerful blizzard.
While yes I agree there are unethical Realtors(R) in the industry NAR has made it clear that it will not tollerate such and if ethics complaints are made they will review them according to the bylaws and saction those Realtors(R). Again I hate to break it to you but Realtor(S) are seperate
To be completly frank and honest with you, it doesn't appear that your very happy in real estate sales and may possibly need to consider parting ways and moving into other avenues. In addition if your not happy being a member of NAR, CAR, and your local board the leave! No one is holding a gun to you saying you must be a Realtor(R).
Generally speaking, Realtors(R) are the "cream of the crop" in the real estate sales industry. They average more education, more experience, more coaching, and more training than that of an ordinary agent. This is not an opinion but a written and proven fact. Again I say generally speaking since there is always one or two that may be the exception, but they are by far not the rule. Again by far Realtors(R) are special ( and i dont mean that in a concieded manner either) and set apart from just the oridinary agent.
Again, I must repeat myself that if your not happy as a member, then leave. I am very sure that NAR, CAR, and your local Board would want folks who are proud to call themselves a Realtor(R) rather than someone who is a member and frankly only appears to belittle them. So leave.
Again I am always here if you need someone to vent to, but dont complain when 1) your not filing a complaint when you have been wronged by another Realtor(R) and 2)are not participating on the Prof Standards or Greivence Committees.
Im here for you and if you would like me to help you with the filing a compliant process and giving you any reference material please let me know.
Again thanks for your thought and opinions. We are ALL entitled to our opinions whether others agree or not. Its what makes us unique and us.
God Bless and have a great evening my friends.
| Reply by Anonymous on 3/21/06 11:33pm
Msg #107597
Sorry not sure why i showed up annon in the last statement
My appologies.
| Reply by NJ_Notary on 3/21/06 11:37pm
Msg #107600
Re: Sorry not sure why i showed up annon in the last statement
OK lets try this again. Im not trying to post annon. but it keeps happening.
| Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/21/06 11:40pm
Msg #107603
Re: Sorry not sure why i showed up annon in the last stateme
***Do you feel as though I did anything wrong? TIA***
I don't know enough about Realtors to say, but if you're worried about the post being offensive...it wasn't, by the standards here. I thought you were backing down from yours.
Anon, this forum is here to express opinions, share (and some great OT, but that's another topic). I never think anybody does anything wrong about expressing an educated opinion.
The key is "educated". The members of this community are very, very sharp individuals and I learn from them everyday. If the opinion is not educated, be prepared to be nailed to the wall.
Just because Pam didn't come right back and reply don't stay up all night...she'll be back.
Sounds to me like you've got one...an opinion I mean. Them are good. (Just giving some of the grammAr police something to complain about).
Have a good evening
| Reply by NJ_Notary on 3/21/06 11:56pm
Msg #107609
Re: Sorry not sure why i showed up annon in the last stateme
Hi title gal,
Thanks for the input. I just don't want to offend anyone. I know sometimes I can come off as agressive and just dont want folks to get offended. Pamela had misread my original post and we are cleared up. I meant it one way she read it another way. All sharp minds think alike .
Im not sure why I showed up annon the last two times. Thanks for the encouragement. I love this board of true professionals, with the exception of a few (FLMac, et.al.)
I agree the grammar police are going to lock me up for life on this board. I read your post under another thread and I am the same way. I just type and let the thoughts flow and dont always proofread. I just click post. Thank God I dont do that with work lol
God bless and have a great evening.
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