Posted by Negrete on 3/1/06 6:25pm
Msg #101105

NEW 1003 FORM

I don't know if anyone has noticed but there is a new place for the borrower to sign on the 1003. Look at the top of the first page and you will see where you need to get the borrowers and co-borrowers to sign there.

That is if there is a co-borrower to sign.

I have been told by a very reliable source that if there is only ONE borrower that you do NOT have the single borrower sign the top of the 1003. I sure hope that the source I had is correct. ( He knows who he is on here.)

Anthony J Negrete
Negrete's Notary Service Inc.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 3/1/06 6:27pm
Msg #101108

Re: NEW 1003 FORM, It appears to me that if one reads the

statement that the signature requirement is self-explanatory.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 3/1/06 11:49pm
Msg #101236

I respecfully disagree

I believe that the language is , at best, ambiguous as to the issue
of a single bwr signing at the top.
Do not have time now to state why.
I have done signings for a number of major lenders, who
have the name of single bwr printed at the top of page 1 , or
otherwise highlighted, indicating a reqmt for a single bwr to sign.
I am having single bwrs sign top of page 1 absent instructions
to the contrary.
It can't hurt, and, at worst, would constitute an additional signature
by one who is signing the doc anyway.
Beats an argument about going back to secure a "Missed signature"

Reply by SignerCA on 3/1/06 6:27pm
Msg #101109

I have been having single borrowers sign at the top. The last few times there has actually been a sticky note that read "sign here" on top of the signature line. Hmmm.

Reply by LilyMD on 3/1/06 6:33pm
Msg #101110

I have had sticky notes requesting sign here for a single borrower. The other thing I find odd is the new sig line at the top and the initial lines at the bottom of the page.

Reply by cyndi_ca on 3/1/06 6:37pm
Msg #101114

I don't understand why the sig at the top and intial at the bottom. Can anyone explain that.

Reply by Rick_NY on 3/1/06 6:53pm
Msg #101118

Can anyone explain that? "Ooooh, me me me me!"

Well, since you asked--

First of all, the parties who ask Individual applicants to sign at the top of page one are brain-impaired. It just isn't called for except for Joint Applicants.

Second of all, since an Individual applicant need not sign at the top, but there are some lenders who want to document that the borrower got that page of the credit app., they will have a space for initials at the bottom of page one for that purpose. (I guess it's not really a Universal Loan Application if it differs from lender to lender, is it?)

I hope that helps.

Peace out.

Reply by cyndi_ca on 3/1/06 7:01pm
Msg #101121

Re: Can anyone explain that? "Ooooh, me me me me!"

Yes that does help and pretty much confirms my thought I had on this. Thank you.

Reply by JanelWI on 3/1/06 7:03pm
Msg #101123

Re: Can anyone explain that? "Ooooh, me me me me!"

Even though I know this is for joint applicants, I am still being told to have single borrowers sign by different companies. If they don't tell me. I go with the obvious and don't have them sign. I just don't understand why some companies are having single borrowers sign? Other than the brain imparied theory....does anyone know the logic behind this? And why they all are not doing it the same way? I hate sitting there feeling like....should they sign? shouldn't they?

Reply by cyndi_ca on 3/1/06 7:05pm
Msg #101126

Re: Can anyone explain that? "Ooooh, me me me me!"

I just have them sign no matter what, single or joint. Haven't had any complaints yet.

Reply by Ninna_La on 3/1/06 11:41pm
Msg #101232

Re: Can anyone explain that? "Ooooh, me me me me!"

If I have a one borrower application, then I have the one borrower hand write in that section "I am not applying for joint credit" and then I have them initial. I have done this many times with many different lenders since the 1003 changed, and I have had no complaints.

Reply by PA_Notary_II on 3/1/06 7:03pm
Msg #101125

Re: Can anyone explain this?

I've been doing this a long time, but I wonder, having never really given it much thought, why we get new RESPA's and 1003s signed at the table. These are, or should be signed at the beginning of the application process. I had one yesterday that had 4=FOUR 1003's in the pkg and for the life of me, I can't figure out why lenders and brokers put their customers through this BS. If the LO did his job right, the original 1003 should be just fine. After all, the RESPA's are supposed to be all estimates anyhow. I would think that in the event of an audit, the auditor would rather see an honest 1003 as opposed to a laundered one. What say ye?

Reply by Rick_NY on 3/1/06 7:12pm
Msg #101129

Re: Can anyone explain this?

The 1003 that should be signed in the beginning of the process is called the "initial handwritten." The 1003 signed at the closing is the "final typewritten." It accounts for the differences that result from people filling out their apps in the beginning from not the most up-to-date info. Four copies of a 1003 to sign is ludicrous.

I did a purchase closing a few weeks ago at the mortgage brokers office. The final HUD came late and I alerted the broker I'd be arriving about 30 minutes past the appointment time. When I arrived, they still brought in all of their disclosures for ME to go over with the buyers. They were waiting in the vestibule the whole time. Ya think they'd let them sign it all before I got there since they knew I was running late.

GRRRRRR!!!

Reply by cyndi_ca on 3/1/06 7:19pm
Msg #101136

Re: Can anyone explain this?

I wonder how many brokers have a brain. I hope I don't offend any brokers here. Not intended, but sometimes they can be pretty dumb.

Reply by cyndi_ca on 3/1/06 7:20pm
Msg #101138

check your mail silly n/m

Reply by Rick_NY on 3/1/06 7:21pm
Msg #101139

I'm composing my reply, so there! :-P n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/1/06 10:50pm
Msg #101226

Re: Can anyone explain this?

"If the LO did his job right..." You said it in a nutshell! How often does that happen in the real world?

On the original topic, when I first read the top of the new forms where it says "If applying for joint credit..." or something similar, I thought it was a no-brainer, too. I don't get either why I'm so frequently being told to have single signers - and especially NOB signers! - sign it anyway. I'll have them sign however instructed, but it doesn't make sense to me, either.

Reply by MichiganAl on 3/2/06 1:18am
Msg #101246

Yes, this has been covered several times

It's clear (at least to me) that it should only be signed if it's a joint app, but plenty of SS and title cos. haven't figured that out and want it signed regardless. Better to just do it in either case and save everyone having a cow over it. Much less grief.

Reply by PAW on 3/2/06 8:06am
Msg #101287

Re: Yes, this has been covered several times

I've been told by one lender that the top portion of page 1 should only be signed if there are two (or more) borrowers applying for joint credit. They may (so I've been told) reject the application if the closer or signing agent has a single borrower sign it. Reason is that when the mortgage is sold, there may be a problem in that the buyer of the mortgage is expecting to see a joint applicant and may think that something is missing.

It is apparent to me, after talking with many folks on the title and lender side, that the procedure has not been clearly defined by HUD on how this section is to be used. The paragraph is somewhat ambiguous and left for interpretation at all levels.

Reply by Rick_NY on 3/2/06 8:33am
Msg #101302

Very interesting, PAW--

-- so benignly and blindly following the instructions of the TC could have secondary marketing implications. Interesting, indeed.

Reply by PAW on 3/2/06 8:51am
Msg #101315

Re: Very interesting, PAW--

That's the consensus of opinions. It is somewhat confusing, to say the least, because no one is providing clear and concise direction of who is to sign what and where.

The initial paragraph simply implies that the application must be completed and signed.

------
This application is designed to be completed by the applicant(s) with the Lender’s assistance. Applicants should complete this form as “Borrower” or “Co-Borrower,” as applicable. Co-Borrower information must also be provided (and the appropriate box checked) when �[] the income or assets of a person other than the Borrower (including the Borrower’s spouse) will be used as a basis for loan qualification or �[] the income or assets of the Borrower’s spouse or other person who has community property rights pursuant to state law will not be used as a basis for loan qualification, but his or her liabilities must be considered because the spouse or other person has community property rights pursuant to applicable law and Borrower resides in a community property state, the security property is located in a community property state, or the Borrower is relying on other property located in a community property state as a basis for repayment of the loan.
-----

Well, page 4 and page 5 is where the applicant(s) always have and continue to sign the application. In the past, there were statements and disclosures in some packages for the sole purpose of indicating the the application was for "joint credit". Those documents have been replaced with the single line statement on page one which directs that if the applicants are applying for joint credit, they need to sign that statement.

-----
If this is an application for joint credit, Borrower and Co-Borrower each agree that we intend to apply for joint credit (sign below):
-----

Then the applicants who are applying --jointly--, need to sign at the top of page 1 AND on pages 4 and 5, plus initial all the pages, including the signed pages, if initials are required.

Reply by MichiganAl on 3/2/06 9:49am
Msg #101334

Let me ask you this Paul

When you see the hardship form in some packages that says "your payment MAY be due within the next 30 days and this doesn't create a hardship" don't you still have the borrower sign it even if their payment isn't due within 30 days? It seems pretty similar to me. IF this app is for joint credit...Okay, it's not, but borrower understands if it was they'd have to file for joint credit. It may not apply in this situation, but it seems pruduent to sign anyway. I think it would be so foolish for a lender to reject it because they think something is missing. If there is only one person on the app, and only one person signed, what idiot would think something was missing. Wait, nevermind, for a second there I forgot what industry we're in.

Reply by PAW on 3/2/06 10:14am
Msg #101347

Re: Let me ask you this Paul

>>> When you see the hardship form in some packages that says "your payment MAY be due within the next 30 days and this doesn't create a hardship" don't you still have the borrower sign it even if their payment isn't due within 30 days? <<<

Absolutely. There is the possibility, especially at month end, that disbursement may be delayed and/or the proceeds may not be received by the borrower until the "30-day window" has been opened. That is, a signing completed on 2/23 will disburse on 2/28, but may not distribute, especially to the borrower until 3/1 or 3/2. And the first payment will be on 4/1 which is within the 30-day window. Thus the need for the 'hardship' letter, as often the borrower is expecting the proceeds to make payments on other obligations.