Posted by Korey Humphreys on 3/5/06 5:43pm
Msg #102128

OT: Does this violate any law that you may know of.....

I copied an apostille from my file and have added it to my download page. Is it illegal to reproduce them in the manner I have? Or am I being to overly cautious?

Here's what I added:

http://manotary.cjb.cc/downloads/Apostille.doc

Please note, this in no way is advertising. I want to make sure that by my copying/formatting the Apostille into Microsoft Word isn't violating any law. I did research the laws and couldn't find anything. It's not like I am issuing an apostille, I just have it there for an example. Do you think it is necessary to add an apostille as an example?

If I am wrong on the advertising part, please correct me. What one may view as one thing, that one thing may not be viewed the same by another. Thanks for you input.

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 3/5/06 6:13pm
Msg #102131

Sorry... I gave wrong URL please go here instead:

http://www.manotary.cjb.cc/downloads/Apostille.tif

Again, if you consider this advertising, please correct me. I am not trying to advertise my services to any board member and/or mobile notary. I don't get paid by other mobile notaries... thanks.

Reply by Les_CO on 3/5/06 7:01pm
Msg #102139

Why would you NEED one? Are you going to PREPARE this document for a client?
A Notary... is a Notary....is a Notary. I've been a notary since 1970. I have NEVER prepared a document for someone who's signature I witnessed. It seems to me that you 1) worry to much, 2) should pass the bar.

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 3/5/06 7:51pm
Msg #102167

prepare a document. what? an apostille is nothing I prepare.

I'm confused! An apostille is nothing I, or any notary public prepares. I never mentioned anything about preparing a document.

The whole point behind it is to show members of the public what an Apostille looks like. I've been asked by companies what an Apostille is. (Not signing or TC companies. I'm referring to companies that conduct business overseas). I figure that if I have an example visible, then I wouldn't have to answer this question if the person/business went through the information contained in the website.

It's there for reference. I said nothing about preparing one, or any document for that matter. You mean to tell me that you've been a notary public since 1970 and nobody has ever asked you what the heck an Apostille is?

You mentioned that I should pass the bar.................... huh? LOL what does that have to do with this or an Apostille? I wouldn't want to pass the bar to become an attorney because I value my free time with friends and family. An active attorney is focused on his/her clients and doesn't have a life, so to speak. A paralegal, on the other hand, provides same service, yet is free to live because we don't have to spend our time representing people in the court of law. I definitely wouldn't want to take the bar.

Reply by Les_CO on 3/5/06 9:02pm
Msg #102180

Re: prepare a document. what? an apostille is nothing I prepare.

Yes... In my 30 odd years as Notary, and being before the public, I have been asked many things. Worring about the EXACT verbage on an Apostille has not been one of my most frenquently asked questions. I know what an Apostille (there's more than one 'meaning') is..... Prehaps you should study LAW? It can't hurt.. and it sounds as if you' re a bit bored. So why not? Some lawyers are actually nice people...and manage to have a bit of free time. And I agree... If you're posting this 'document' for the enlightenment of others, I applaud your motives.

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 3/5/06 9:23pm
Msg #102185

Re: prepare a document. what? an apostille is nothing I prepare.

I did not ask what verbiage was required. I was unaware as to whether or not it would be construed as illegal to copy and post an Apostille that had already been issued. I was concerned about this law:

M.G.L. c. 267 § 1: False or Forged Records or Certificates of Notary Public:
Whoever, with intent to injure or defraud, falsely makes, alters, forges or counterfeits a public record, or a certificate, return or attestation of a clerk or register of a court, public register, notary public, justice of the peace, town clerk or any other public officer,.... shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not more then ten years or in jail for not more than two years.

After reading it, I have decided that I am not falsifying and/or forging this public document.

I do study law. I am in no way a walking legal encyclopedia, but I am very familiar with the law in my area of "expertise". I haven't met any one yet, including an attorney, who doesn't need to continuously educate themselves and/or know everything their is to know about the law.

I know basics........................ but if you ask a civil litigation attorney about criminal procedure, I can almost guarantee you that he/she will have to do a little research to reacquaint themselves in criminal procedures. Same scenario with paralegals.

Reply by Anonymous on 3/5/06 11:47pm
Msg #102212

Re: prepare a document. what? an apostille is nothing I prepare.

Korey.....is there anyhting you dont know?????? What a pompous human being you are....

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 3/6/06 12:01am
Msg #102218

I have a fan! ....

If you're interested, my signature is worth $1.25 if you appear before me........ and up to $350.00 if I travel to you.

I don't even know why I am replying to you. Your post makes no sense because I was in "conversation" with everyone who posted here. Obviously if I knew everything I wouldn't have posted a question.

I do know, however, how to spell anything. Sometimes I misspell words too! Nobody is perfect

BUTTTTTTTTTT, I'm tired. It's 12:58 AM and I have a big day tomorrow. So, have a wonderful night, and I'll write to you tomorrow.

Reply by PAW on 3/5/06 7:44pm
Msg #102161

Korey,

While I don't think it is illegal to have an apostille on your website, it does seem to border on UPL to have it completed by you for the client. This is in consideration of Massachusetts law that states an individual may receive the requisite certification by coming in person to the Commissions Section, Room 1719, One Ashburton Place, Boston, Massachusetts 02108, or by mailing the necessary documents to that address. It is up to the Secretary of the Commonwealth to prepare and provide the document. It is solely up to the document custodian to include the following information:

* The country of destination for the documents;
* A check made payable to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts; and,
* a prepaid return envelope to have the documents returned,
* -or- to have the documents returned via Federal Express, DHL, or any other express mail service, please enclose a prepaid return envelope with a billing account number.
* The SOC's office does not accept credit cards as a form of pre-payment for express mail services.

A failure to provide all of the necessary information may result in a delay in the issuance of the certification.

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 3/5/06 7:56pm
Msg #102169

PAW

This is not something I prepare. I happen to have one in a file. I figured I could scan it, as I did, and have it visble on my site as an example. I wouldn't create one for a client.

You are correct, people have to request it as you stated. I'm only seeking to find out whether or not it is illegal for me to (1) scan an Apostille and (2) post an Apostille on my website for reference purposes only.

I haven't seen anything about it being illegal to copy an Apostille. I'm just double checking. I actually had you in mind when I posted that question knowing you'd know.

Reply by PAW on 3/5/06 8:00pm
Msg #102171

Re: PAW

In that case, I suggest you place a large diagonal "S A M P L E" (in a large Arial font, like a watermark) on the page, so it cannot be used for any purpose other than for display and reference.

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 3/5/06 8:01pm
Msg #102172

Ah! Good idea! Doing that now.. .thank you n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/5/06 8:53pm
Msg #102179

Re: PAW

If you get asked for an apostille often like I do it becomes worth it to have one on file or on your website however you have to do it so that you are not practicing UPL. Get the certificate approved by an attorney, ask them to draft, whatever...ask the SOS if you can do it as an alternative to the attorney. I think if the apostille wording is available on the sos site then typing it on a document would not be UPL. It just depends how your state's apostille is presented.

Since grade transcripts are needed often between countries, it is something that is necessary in a college town.

I had a student couple from China bring me the instructions which they downloaded with the sample form in it. Unfortunately, it was inadequate as taken from the website for the purpose they needed it to serve. I explained to them to go follow the instructions and return. DO IT NOW, they said. I cannot. TYPE IT FOR US, they said and I explained that I could not. The woman understood but the man was angry.

They were the second couple I had dealt with who needed to get married in China and they needed to do statements that are customary in China. In order to be legal statements they had to have it notarized and then an apostille completed.

Reply by PAW on 3/5/06 9:08pm
Msg #102181

Re: PAW

Only the Secretary of State (or Commonwealth) can issue and provide an apostille. As far as I know, this is true in Texas, as well as FL and MA.

Your reference is to the request form. The orginal post was in reference to the actual apostille certificate.

Texas has a **request form** that can be completed and sent to the Secretary of State. As far as I am aware, FL and MA do not have a form. IMO, having the request form available would not be considered UPL. I'm sure you will check with your TX authorities on that.

Reply by PAW on 3/5/06 9:14pm
Msg #102182

FAQ from the TX SOS

18. How do I obtain an Apostille/certificate on my school transcript or diploma?

A school transcript or diploma may only be certified by the educational institution that issued the transcript or diploma. However, this office cannot certify to a school registrar. Therefore, the certifying official for the institution must complete the certification before a Texas notary public. This office may then issue an Apostille/certificate for the document verifying the notary public's term of office. After obtaining the notarized certification, please follow the instructions stated in Question #19.

19. How do I obtain an official Certificate or Apostille on a Texas Notary Public?

If you have a document that is notarized by a TEXAS notary public you may obtain an official Certificate or Apostille from the Notary Public Unit. Detailed information pertaining to the procedure for requesting such Certificates or Apostilles may be found at http://www.sos.state.tx.us/authinfo.shtml.

The Texas secretary of state cannot provide certification for notaries licensed outside the state of Texas.


Emphasis on the sentence:

"This office [TX SOS] may then issue an Apostille/certificate for the document verifying the notary public's term of office. "

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/5/06 9:55pm
Msg #102196

Re: FAQ from the TX SOS

****Emphasis on the sentence:

"This office [TX SOS] may then issue an Apostille/certificate for the document verifying the notary public's term of office. " ****

Emphasis on my post just before this one.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/5/06 9:50pm
Msg #102194

Re: PAW

**I'm sure you will check with your TX authorities on that.**

Let me clarify a bit. I was lazy and did not stress "request" or that I was speaking of getting a "request for apostille." Not every notary has a form like Texas does which can be printed out. That's why I said what I did. Nor did I stress that the apostille request form the couple brought me was from a foreign site of some kind (maybe the embassy?) where it told them how to get what they needed to get married as far as the apostille part goes.

Perhaps it will be more clear what I was dealing with if I say that what they brought me had instructions on what they needed to say in their statements and what the apostille needed to say. The problem was they wanted me to type it for them because they did not understand my limitations as a notary.

And, I will spare the audience of this my explanation about why I think if you live in a college town you will get prepared by having something ready to do the request. I was not. Now I am.

Now, if the issue was about the certificate and not the request for it, then I can understand the problem you seem to have with my error - It was my mistake for misreading the original post. I did not click on Korey's link. I was thinking "request" and that was what I posted about.

Within your response explaining to me how to do the job you included this: **I'm sure you will check with your TX authorities on that.** You have made yourself abundantly clear to me with that statement. Some might even think it was quite condescending. No problem.

However, I just like to keep the record straight and once something like this is written to me--you know, I feel obligated to answer it. That way if there is a misunderstanding it can be fixed. So, being perfectly frank, upon reading it I asked myself, "Was the above remark the way a colleague addresses me if the fellow notary has even a degree of respect for me?"

Unfortunately, I find the answer to be "No." This has finally registered loud and clear on me and I shall proceed with that understanding. I generally do not allow remarks of disrespect toward me by those I have been respectful of to go by as if they did not happen. Therefore, I am noting that this is how you have responded to me over something very minor.

This has been interesting and enlightening.

I think I have learned more than the proper way to say "request for apostille" tonight. Thank you, Paul.

Reply by PAW on 3/6/06 7:48am
Msg #102283

No disrespect ...

Brenda,

No disrespect was implied nor intended. The comment about checking with your TX authorities was made simply because I am not versed in Texas laws, policies and procedures. I do not know if it is okay to provide a request or not, though I would suspect not. Therefore, I suggested that a check of the appropriate authority would be in order. (And I would assume that you already had, having been in this situation, and being the professional you are, but I do not like to publicize my assumptions. )

I apologize if you took my message the wrong way.