Posted by Anonymous on 3/6/06 1:42pm
Msg #102481

Signing Agencies Contract

If I were to sign up with a Signing Agency do any of there contracts forbid me from working with a Title company direct that they also work for. Any verbiage in there contract that I should be concerned with? Thank you

Reply by Charm_AL on 3/6/06 1:46pm
Msg #102486

If a signing company states in their contract that they do not want you to solicit their TC's then don't do it. If a TC contacts you on their own, it's different and you can ethically accept the signing.

Reply by JudyinLa on 3/6/06 2:04pm
Msg #102497

Don't sign any contracts. That way when the opportunity presents itself you can go after the work directly through the Title Company. Signing services are on the way out.

Reply by PAW on 3/6/06 2:33pm
Msg #102514

Don't bet on it.

There will always be the need for Signing Services. The good ones will rise to the top, but it may take a while before that happens. I am not a big proponent of Signing Services, but will work for those who pay equitably and timely. There are some lenders and title companies who do not seek their own agents, so a Signing Service is their logical choice.

Reply by FlaMac on 3/6/06 2:36pm
Msg #102518

Finally! We should've never let em' in to begin with...

Looking back..I'm sure SA's would've banded together when this whole edocs/signing agent industry started and shut out the SS's. What a complete waste of money for the borrower to pay. Anyone who buys into some of the SS rant's about how little money they make needs to buy a calculator. If we SA's would just turn down low paying SS's and stick by our rates..we'd save the borrower money and do away with the third party companies. We can only hope and pray..

Reply by Shane_OH on 3/6/06 2:36pm
Msg #102516

I Disagree Charm...

Non-compete verbage can very much affect jobs you can or can't take.
Depending on your states laws, and the wording of any non-compete clause, technically could cause issues with accepting some jobs.

Assuming you signed a non-compete and your state allows them, or uses the blue pencil ruling (they can cancel out illegal or non-valid parts of a non-compete and still allow the non-compete to be valid)

Scenario One
You closed a loan for AAA Signing Services, and BBB was the Title Company. 2 Weeks later BBB Calls you to close one of their loans directly without going thru AAA. Under this scenario, you'd be in violation of your non-compete, AAA could then sue you for breach of contract, or, could get an injunction against you so that you can't close loans for BBB.

Scenario Two
You had a previous relationship with BBB before signing a non-compete with AAA. You get a closing from AAA, and again BBB is the Title company. Depending on how your state treats non-compete laws, you could have forfeitted your outside relationship with BBB, and now can only close their loans by going thru AAA.

Watch what you sign....and preferrably DO NOT sign any Non-Compete's.

Obviously I'm not an attorney, this is not legal advice, just common sense, by an individual residing in the State of Ohio, please take this as opinion, with a grain of salt, talk over the water cooler, and I just saved 15% by switching to.... blah blah blah.... disclaimer.

Reply by FlaMac on 3/6/06 2:40pm
Msg #102523

Good advice but if they did not pay as agreed the contract..

is broken. Meaning if you sign a contract and they state they will pay within 30 days and they don't..the contract is void. That's the perfect time to notify them that you no longer will do biz with them as they have broken their own contract. I can only speak for Florida..but non-compete's of this type are not enforceable.

Reply by Shane_OH on 3/6/06 5:47pm
Msg #102598

Re: Good advice but if they did not pay as agreed the contract..

I would imagine that is only if the contract states that they will pay within a given time frame.

Reply by Charm_AL on 3/6/06 2:41pm
Msg #102525

Shane...

All I've ever heard here was that we cannot solicit the SS's TC's. But ok to take a job from the TC when directly contacted. I've seen non-competes and other contract wording in so far as soliciting. I'm interested in what others have to say on it.

Reply by Shane_OH on 3/6/06 2:44pm
Msg #102532

SS would say you solicited...

I think if you had signed a non-compete, and the SS pushed the issue (which probably none would), that they would have a valid argument and in some states win the case.

Reply by patricia on 3/6/06 4:35pm
Msg #102572

Re:there is a problem here

I get calls from title companies and lenders, the contact is made by cell-phone, frequently while I am driving or in another appt. How am I to recognize a company that I have done a signing for before but through a signing service? I do some signings for LSI but get lots of
Fidelity Title offices that call me direct. Also do Countrywide loans through several signing services but also get quite a few directly, I cant really be expected to identify these situations
at the time I accept the appointment.

Reply by FlaMac on 3/6/06 5:05pm
Msg #102584

Very good point..maybe never sign a contract? n/m

Reply by Shane_OH on 3/6/06 5:40pm
Msg #102594

Re: Re:there is a problem here

I would say that in the eyes of the law, if they were to scrutinize, that yes, you would be responsible for identifying those situations.

Again, I am in absolutely no way, shape, or form, supporting SS's, and i'm a huge fan of NOT signing Non-Competes.... but once signed, they are what they are.

Reply by Paul_IL on 3/6/06 4:46pm
Msg #102574

Most non-compete clauses not worth the paper printed on! NM n/m

Reply by Shane_OH on 3/6/06 5:46pm
Msg #102597

Re: Most non-compete clauses not worth the paper printed on! NM

I think you'll find that statement to be untrue.

While I've never had to fight a notary non-compete, I've fought several non-competes in the radio industry. I won and lost, simply because Indiana (i was living there at the time) had the blue pencil law....that allowed courts to simply erase the bad portion of the non-compete, and replace it with a good wording....
for instance...

My radio non-compete said I could not work in any geographic location within Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, or Kentucky for a period of 5 years pursant to my departure of the station, whether it be by resigning, or by termination.

The court ruled that the geographic location was not valid, as it was too wide an area, and they ruled the radio station would only be hurt if I worked at a competing station in their market...so they made it a 75 mile radius to Fort Wayne, IN. The court also ruled that the 5 year time frame was overwhelming, and reduced it to 2 years (which is the maximum in Indiana).

Another time I had to fight one, they upheld the geographic location, but reduced the time frame to a period of 6 months (as I was only employed there for 6 months).

It depends on what state you are in, but you will find more and more courts are upholding them.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/6/06 8:14pm
Msg #102653

That's interesting, but I've been told by atty's that

non-compete are virtually impossible to hold up...in California. I inquired when I first started doing signings and both attorneys (real estate) said the same thing.

I don't have the experience with actual court cases as you do Shane, but I'd support the statement it varies from state to state; not sure about "you will find more and more courts are upholding them".

Reply by Shane_OH on 3/7/06 8:55am
Msg #102757

Re: That's interesting, but I've been told by atty's that

I know Indiana is one of the tougher states when it comes to upholding them. Like i said, even if part of the contract is invalid, the court will simply pencil in wording that is valid, and then enforce that..the court actually has the power to change your contract to make sure it complies with the law.

I am actually stuck in one non-compete, that I signed (first SS job I ever took, and didn't read the contract)... but, I get about 40 signings a month from them, and the lowest fee they pay is $175... so while I'd love to rock the boat, its not worth it.

Reply by Paul_IL on 3/7/06 2:13pm
Msg #102875

Re: That's interesting, but I've been told by atty's that

In a growing number of states these highly restrictive non-compete clauses are being struck down. They are starting to look more at the industry as well. From what I have seen and having talked with others they are rarely enforceable for us since we as Independent Contractors have overlapping clients.

Reply by Anonymous on 3/6/06 2:18pm
Msg #102503

Thanks for the advice!

Reply by LilyMD on 3/6/06 2:42pm
Msg #102529

Anonymous from 69.231.247.101 don't take JudyinLa's advice. That's unethical and unprofessional. It's great to market to a title company but do it professionally.

Reply by RickinVA on 3/6/06 7:04pm
Msg #102622

Personally, I don't sign them. I cross them out of the contract. Only twice have the SS's asked me to fill out the contract without changes, and both times I refused. One of those SS's still use me. The other I have never heard from again.

Rick

Reply by NJ_Notary on 3/6/06 9:06pm
Msg #102668

Interesting topic folks... Just a penny for my thoughts.... and now my two cents worth... (btw where did that other penny come from---that really makes one ponder lol )....

In college and any business course I have taken you must take in the account of reasonability...Just like shane said the courts in his cases found certain things reasonable while other things were unreasonable and impeded on the right of an individual to make a living. Furthermore, one must also look into the contract to see what state's laws are governing the contract.... IE... Sally Notary signs a contract with Jon C. SS. Sally N lives in MASS while Jon C 's company is in NJ. Which state's law governs the contract? As we all know every state has different views, regs, and laws. A proper contract would clearly identify which state's laws govern the contract....

Ok theres my two thoughts.... Now please dont slam me to hard ;-)