Posted by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 10:55am
Msg #107719
Signing Service Perspective - Part 2
I know I have brought this up before but I figured I would again, whereas, I still see alot of SS bashing on here...There are some good ones out there so please dont lump us all together.
Owning a SS isnt as glamorous as some of you think. It is a downright frustrating job sometimes. Dont get me wrong, I am very grateful to do what I do but there are some downfalls that I would like to share with you because some seem to feel that all we do is pick a closer, tell our clients and get paid and that couldnt be further from the truth.
I can only speak for my company but I feel that some of the things that go on in this industry is just as aggravating for us as it is for you guys. We deal with alot of the same stuff that you do except on a grander scale.
It is very difficult from our perspective because we have to entrust our business to people we dont even know. I am fortunate that I now have a very large database with WONDREFUL agents (you know who you are) most of which I have worked with for a very long time BUT on the flip side, it is really wonderful (not) when an agent decides not to show up to the closing, curse out your client, hold the docs hostage, etc....etc....
And to again squash the myth - Signing Services are not always paid the amount that is listed on the HUD. I have run across many a title company who "cushions" the HUD. Perfect example - client who I am suing charged $300 for each closing that we did for him when our fee was only $150 (and he couldnt even pay that). Owning a SS isnt really as glamorous as some of you may think guys.
Sorry to rant but I am just tired of hearing about how SS's are useless, you need to "cut out" the middle man, we pocket so much money and offer measly fees.
I personally do my best to build relationships with the agents that I work with and I do feel that signing services play an extremely intriquite part in this industry. Besides assisting our clients by providing them with the best in the industry, we also act as a buffer between you and the title company and hopefully save you from some of the wrath that we occassionally have to suffer. Besides it is much more cost effective for a TC to use a SS because they than do not have to hire a full time person to come in and schedule their closings.
So...if we can just weed out the bad SA's AND the bad SS's, I think it might help to encourage some harmony between SA's and SS's. In my eyes, we are both and extremely intriquite part of the process.
| Reply by John_NorCal on 3/22/06 11:26am
Msg #107732
Sherry:
As you have pointed out there are good and bad SS's and SA's. In my opinion a SS is a form of marketing tool. Not everyone has the resources, the ability and in some cases the desire, to market directly to title companies. lenders, etc. As with bad apple SA agents who give this industry a black eye because of their conduct, there are also the SOX, Documents on the Run, and countless others who make their dollar on the back of the signing agent with no regard to morality let alone integrity. Also, signing services have to take into account fees that are appropriate for the area. We see too many examples of the typical $50.00 signing where a person is expected to travel mile upon mile for what amounts to peanuts. The excuse that so many SS's give of, "That's all the title company will pay." Just does not cut it.
As you stated, "So...if we can just weed out the bad SA's AND the bad SS's, I think it might help to encourage some harmony between SA's and SS's. In my eyes, we are both and extremely intriquite part of the process." The problem is in cleaning up this mess, what are the answers? I don't know, for my part I start by giving professional service as do most others on this board and I turn away the penny pinching jobs that does no good to anyone. I would hope that you in your capacity, can find a way to alleviating this quandry.
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 11:31am
Msg #107735
John..I am not sure what the answer is either....I do what I have to do to take care of my clients and SA's so I do my part. I think that these bad apples will eventually weed themselves out but that is going to take a whole lot of time unfortunately...The problem is is that SA's and SS's get into this business with hopes of getting rich and are NOT trained or educated about the industry. I dont know what we can do to change it....
| Reply by Dorothy_MI on 3/22/06 11:30am
Msg #107734
Sherry, while I agree with a great many of the things in your post and that is why I don't have a signing service of my own, I disagree with a couple. Employees (or in our case subcontractors) is a huge PITA; been there, done that and don't want to go back! However, I really don't buy the economics for the title company. How many closings do they have to do where they pay the signing service even $150 whereas they could hire one of us direct for $100 - $125 (and I know a great many of the jobs are in a higher category). At $25 to $50 a pop, how many do they have to do in a day to make the scheduler's expense (including benefits)? Several years ago, I subbed out to a local title company doing their in house overages. Sometimes, we had both conference rooms and the manager's office full from 9:30 until 4:30 with back to back closings as well as two to four outside closers. All of these were scheduled by an in house scheduler who coordinated it all with the closers, lenders and the borrowers and it was not a full time job. When the scheduler was not busy scheduling she did title searches, copied packages, bundled the packages, etc. And on top of it all, by hiring a SS they don't know who is representing them at the closing. Boy, if I were a title company, this is not a gamble I would like to take. Now I know there are a few SS which screen their closers/signing agents carefully to make sure that not only is the person knowledgeable, professional and reliable; this is not the case in the vast majority. Just my view.
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 11:39am
Msg #107737
I understand Dorothy but I respectfully disagree with you....I work with quite a few TC's that do have an inhouse scheduling person...that scheduling person calls us to help her fill the orders...
What would be the benefit to you to work directly for the TC for $100 when I am paying you a $100 as well?
I would also like to say that if you are working with good and reputable SS's, it could be a benefit to you as well...For example, if you cannot do a closing for us, we dont write you off but if you say no too many times to a TC, they may get tired of calling you. There are benefits to working through a SS for both the TC's and the SA's
| Reply by SLP_VA on 3/22/06 11:48am
Msg #107740
Sherry stated:
"I would also like to say that if you are working with good and reputable SS's, it could be a benefit to you as well...For example, if you cannot do a closing for us, we dont write you off but if you say no too many times to a TC, they may get tired of calling you."
Sherry, that is so true of your company. I am witness to that. Each and everytime you've called me, I've been booked with other closings. Your scheduler always tells me that it is ok and she'll be calling me back if another closing in my area comes up. And she does.
I, unfortunatelly have not have the oppurtunity to do a closing for you as of yet. I always feel so bad when I have to tell your scheduler that because from what I read, you are one of the "elite" SS out of there.
I do understand your perspective as well as the SA perspectives as well. I'm sure it is frustrating for you as is with us, SA.
Just keep doing what you're doing as a SS and you will go a long way as you have already.
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 12:01pm
Msg #107748
Thank you for your kind words SLP. n/m
| Reply by AngelinaAZ on 3/22/06 11:53am
Msg #107744
***For example, if you cannot do a closing for us, we dont write you off but if you say no too many times to a TC, they may get tired of calling you.***
I think this is great and it says alot for your integrity. However, it is NOT TRUE for soooo many other Signing Services. In my experience, I think on a whole my TC's are much more loyal... as long as you don't screw up.  And you shouldn't screw up anyway. Most (not all) of the SS's I work for are MUCH MORE concerned about the dollar... if they can find someone cheaper... they will.
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 11:57am
Msg #107746
There aren't just HORRIBLE Signing Services out there...
there are some really bad Signing Agents too but I dont judge one because of the actions of others.
| Reply by AngelinaAZ on 3/22/06 12:10pm
Msg #107758
This is irritating!
I didn't say that I judged EVERYBODY that way. I give almost everybody a try and let them earn their own rep. You don't see me discouraging SA's from working for SS's just because they are an SS.
Try this one on for size...
Let's just say that you use the Notary Rotary and SA.com for your SA sources. In general you found that 96% of the SA's from NOTROT do great work and that 4% of the ones from SA.com do great work. Who would you call first???? Someone from SA.com right? NOT. Why not... because experience has taught you better. Now that doesn't mean that there still aren't 4% over there on SA.com that are great... but it's the nature of the beast. In business... there are reputations that certain things have (the sleazy used car salesman... as an example).
I'm sure you are great! I'm just saying that you posting that 'the reputation in general isn't fair' doesn't convince me to change my mind about an opinion that my personal experience has proven to me to be a general fact (with a few exceptions of course).
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 12:19pm
Msg #107761
I understand what you are saying but........................
that does not mean I have to agree with you. In your example, I would call the 4% from SA.com AND the 96% from NotRot.....as long as they did a good job. I GET that you would rather work for TC's because your personal experience has been better with a TC than a Signing Services. I am going to agree to disagree with you and I am sorry that you feel that my opinion is irritating....
| Reply by AngelinaAZ on 3/22/06 12:39pm
Msg #107769
Re: I understand what you are saying but........................
I don't feel that your opinion is irritating, I never said that. I am irritated because I feel like I am being repeatedly misunderstood. I totally appreciate the fact that you are even on here having this debate and I respect you for it.
I am trying to convey a 'general feeling' about Signing Services and why I have it. The example I gave was referring to "who you would call first if looking for a new SA". I was trying to convey how the reputations and actions of many can taint the reputations of a few. (I am NOT talking about people you already work with). If you say that the 96% disappointment rate of a certain group wouldn't taint your opinion of the group in general... then I guess I believe you. If I were an SS looking at that difference.. I would be inclined to make a comment like (Hey those SA.com agents need to go back to school if they want me to use them) ... but I'm sure there are 4% who would rightfully disagree.
All I'm saying Sherry... is that you being in the 4% of the excellent ones doesn't change the fact that the comment made at the beginning still applies to the 96%.
I thank you for having enough respect for us to come here and have this debate. I hope you don't think that I am irritated at you or your opinions in any way. An SS with a good reputation deserves lots of praise... and I truly hope that your business continues to thrive and that the other bad SS's either take some lessons from you or go out of business!!!!
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 12:43pm
Msg #107771
I appreciate your response Angelina...
And I hope the same for you...that these low balling, uneducated SA's drop like flies so that the good ones get their business back....Maybe all of us good guys can hang on and reap the benefits once all the bad ones go away...In a perfect world...SIGH
| Reply by AngelinaAZ on 3/22/06 12:47pm
Msg #107776
AMEN!! I'm waiting patiently... SIGH! n/m
| Reply by Dorothy_MI on 3/22/06 12:02pm
Msg #107750
Sherry, thanks for the response. When I gave the $150 example, that's all it was, because I usually get more than that from title companies. And you and I both know that there are very few SS that will pay more than $100 or even $100! And if they do, I gladly work for them. I don't throw all SS "under the bus", but I do agree with Angelina, the ratio of good signing companies vs good title companies is pretty accurate, as well as her ratio of bad title companies. There are a few title companies that I personally don't want to work for, but I said FEW. There are also a FEW SS that I personally do take all they offer if at all possible. Unfortunately there are some in this business who view it as strictly a numbers game (how many jobs can I fill for the most amount of $$, highest profit margin and to heck with the quality). Now maybe they are the smart ones because they certainly reaped the benefits while the refi boom was on and are now lounging in Tahiti drinking Pina Colata, where the rest of us who value integrety are still hanging in there just trying to do a good job and earn a respectful income.
| Reply by Dorothy_MI on 3/22/06 12:02pm
Msg #107751
Sherry, thanks for the response. When I gave the $150 example, that's all it was, because I usually get more than that from title companies. And you and I both know that there are very few SS that will pay more than $100 or even $100! And if they do, I gladly work for them. I don't throw all SS "under the bus", but I do agree with Angelina, the ratio of good signing companies vs good title companies is pretty accurate, as well as her ratio of bad title companies. There are a few title companies that I personally don't want to work for, but I said FEW. There are also a FEW SS that I personally do take all they offer if at all possible. Unfortunately there are some in this business who view it as strictly a numbers game (how many jobs can I fill for the most amount of $$, highest profit margin and to heck with the quality). Now maybe they are the smart ones because they certainly reaped the benefits while the refi boom was on and are now lounging in Tahiti drinking Pina Colata, where the rest of us who value integrety are still hanging in there just trying to do a good job and earn a respectful income.
| Reply by Dorothy_MI on 3/22/06 12:05pm
Msg #107752
Sorry, hit Post twice in error n/m
| Reply by SatomiCO on 3/22/06 1:01pm
Msg #107786
Re: I get paid more than $100 directly from TC. n/m
| Reply by Nate_MN on 3/22/06 1:07pm
Msg #107790
I agree with Dorothy, I don’t think there is an economic advantage for a title company to use a signing service. Take for example a smaller title company doing 200 loans a month. With approximately 20 working days a month that would be 10 loans a day. Clearly one employee could schedule that many loans in a day, and probably have time to help with other tasks around the office. Let’s say the scheduler costs the title company about $50,000 per year.(approximately $37,500 in salary and $12,500 in benefits, insurance, additional overhead, and other things) That means the title company pays the scheduler $4,166 per month, therefore the cost of the scheduler to the title company per closing is $21. So if the title company pays the signing agent $125 (will assume this is an edoc signing) the total cost to the title company is $146 per closing. I believe that most signing services get a fee between $150 and $250 with the average being closer to the $250. I just don’t see the economic advantage. Maybe you could tell me how you see that using a signing service saves the title company money, because I don’t see it.
I have never worked for you, and probably never will. I am not judging your company, and from what other posters on this forum say you sound great. I am simply saying there is not an economic benefit. I am willing to concede that signing services may serve a purpose in times or extraordinary volume, but I would think that title companies would only use signing services as a temporary measure. In addition I think there are other staffing possibilities that a title company could utilize to not have to pay more to the signing services during these times of high volume. Signing services do not add value to the transaction.
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 1:16pm
Msg #107796
I would disagree Nate.....
Ok....take my company..We have been in business for 4 years now so we have a massive database of closers that we have worked with regularly....It took me a good 2 years to get a database that I was confident would provide my clients with the knowledgeable, experienced closers that they deserve. In that 2 years time, I worked with ALOT of HORRIBLE SA's...You know that old analogy..you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince..WELL let me tell you, you have to go through a lot of BAD SA's to find the good ones. Because of this, I inturn lost some really good clients because in all honesty...this is a very unforgiving industry...brokers dont care if your firm closed 200 loans without issues..its when you have 2 go wrong in one week...thats when they strong arm the TC to change services..
Keeping that in mind...take an in house scheduler starting from scratch in an established TC...they are going to have to go through the same things that I have had to go through, the only difference is that that TC may not be around in the 2 years time it takes to build a database because a few bad closers and wham...the brokers pull their business.
| Reply by Nate_MN on 3/22/06 1:35pm
Msg #107815
Re: I would disagree Nate.....
So if it is costing the same small title company from my previous post $50 to send their closings thru you it’s well worth it. And for the $480,000 (over 4 years) they sent you they couldn’t have developed a list of signing agents on their own. I am guessing this is going to be something that we are going to have to agree to disagree on, because I am not buying it. Also, if all companies were as good at weeding out frogs as you claim to be, then we would not be having discussions about said frogs on this forum. However, there are a lot of discussions about bad signing agents on this forum and therefore this idea that signing services have this great list is just not true. It may be for you, but from an industry wide perspective it’s just not true. As for keeping the lenders happy, I am guessing that savings of $120,000 a year could go a long way as far as offering discounts for screw-ups.
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 1:37pm
Msg #107817
I concure...agree to disagree..... n/m
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 1:41pm
Msg #107821
meant concur n/m
| Reply by AngelinaAZ on 3/22/06 11:46am
Msg #107739
***Sorry to rant but I am just tired of hearing about how SS's are useless, you need to "cut out" the middle man, we pocket so much money and offer measly fees.***
Let me shed some light on the reason why sometimes I personally am guilty of feeling this ways about Signing Services.
I don't know what your ratio of good SA's to bad SA's is... but in doing a quick check of my SS's that I have done business for... here is my personal ratio. (My ratings have nothing to do with the amount of money that I was paid because I don't take the job unless my fee is met).
Excellent/Great in every aspect - 2
Good (No handholding-helpful and concise with instructions-pay within 30 days)- 4
I have worked for somewhere around 150 SS's approx. That's 4% that leave a good taste in my mouth. Now I'm not saying that everyone else was BAD.. but all of them had AT LEAST TWO of the following traits:
1.Faxbacks
2.Repetitious & poorly written instructions
3.Took over 45 days to pay
4.Had a fee doc list (do this or we'll doc your fee)
5.Unhelpful in the event of a problem
6.Handholding
I have worked for approximately 40 TC's directly (excluding the ones I work for in town). Here is my ratio for them.
Excellent - 30
Good - 7
Total Pains in the Butt - 3
That's a 93% good/excellence rating.
***Besides assisting our clients by providing them with the best in the industry, we also act as a buffer between you and the title company and hopefully save you from some of the wrath that we occassionally have to suffer.***
I would rather take the wrath. I don't need a buffer. Maybe if there wasn't a buffer it WOULD help to weed out the bad SA's. Maybe if they started getting their a$$es chewed by TC's and blacklisted... they would either learn some manners, go back to school or pay attention to what they are doing.
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 11:50am
Msg #107742
What I am trying to say Angelina is
why throw those 2 EXCELLENT SS's under the bus because the other 96% suck? That is totally unfair.
| Reply by AngelinaAZ on 3/22/06 11:55am
Msg #107745
Re: What I am trying to say Angelina is
I don't throw anybody under the bus... I'm just telling you why the opinion of SS's in general is tainted.
I'm sure there are some very nice people living in Harlem but that doesn't mean I want to go there at night.
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 12:02pm
Msg #107749
Wasnt meaning as an insult......
just trying to say that you cant judge one by the actions of other....thats all
| Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/22/06 1:50pm
Msg #107824
Re: But if Angelina has a 96% chance of a. . .
. . .good experience when she accepts an assignment from a TC, versus a 4% chance of a good experience when she accepts an assignment from an SS, she'd be crazy to spend a disproportionate amount of her time marketing her services to SSs, fees aside.
I'm still trying to get my mind around what it is the SS does that benefits an SA, as opposed to the SA working directly for a title company.
| Reply by Leon_CO on 3/22/06 11:50am
Msg #107741
Sherry, I would like to sign up with your company and work with you. But I'm in southern Colorado. I don't know about the other SAs in this area, but I'm going to find it hard to ever meet your standard of 50 closings in the past 3 months. It's famine in this part of the state. At least for me it is. Otherwise I'm qualified (i.e. certified, ... etc.). So if you could relax just that one standard a little, I might be able to sign up with you someday.
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 11:51am
Msg #107743
Leon - give us a call..would like to talk to you..... n/m
| Reply by Roger_OH on 3/22/06 12:47pm
Msg #107775
I wish all SS could be like Sherry...
I've only had the opportunity to work with her a handful of times, but SLB has always treated me well and exhibited a sense of CLASS that so many SS never come close to. I don't do a lot of SS anymore, but hers is one I very much enjoy working with.
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 12:54pm
Msg #107783
Thank you Roger..you made my day..hopefully we'll send some
more your way soon...
| Reply by Mia on 3/22/06 12:59pm
Msg #107785
It appears to some of us that an "SS" is just a redundant step in the process.
The communication between the SA to the SS to the Lender/TC sometimes falls through
the cracks. (I have pulled my hair out on many occassions -- if I could only speak to the Lender/TC directly).
There are many issues that some of the SS's don't understand -- and the first one is, State Laws --> no one can know all the State Laws but, they sure should know the basics for all 50 States. Second - illegal requests.... most of us know the companies that request these.
Third - certain issues arise where the SA can not complete the instructions as stated.... this one has to do with the SA being in a rural area where pickups and deliveries are a hit and miss situation.... and receiving the documents in a timely manner (not after the scheduled meeting time with the borrower -- makes the SA look incompetent).
Fourth - the SA does not do this for FREE - enough of the non-payment issues, reduced fee because of a no sign or the borrower chose to use the RTC. Or the SS that does not have enough captial to pay in a timely manner (and not telling the SA that they will get paid when the SS gets paid --- robbing peter to pay paul type of situation).
The Lenders, Title Companies and Notaries (SA) are all regulated -- the SS isn't. I really feel that the Signing Services (SS) should be regulated.
JMHO
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 1:09pm
Msg #107792
I wholeheartedly agree......
Unfortunately, some of the things that you mentioned (ie...doc reception, rural areas with restricted pickup times)...these requests are all out of our control too....I for one give the closers that I work with direct access to my client so that they can speak to them freely regarding the closing. Unfortunately, I am running the risk of losing some closers and clients because of direct marketing but hey that is the price I pay.
I also agree with regulation but in all honesty...a lot of why some signing services are the way they are is because of their clients....Although TC's and Lenders are regulated....that does not mean that they follow the regulations which in turn flows down to the SS (if they choose to operate that way)
| Reply by Glenn Strickler on 3/22/06 1:32pm
Msg #107813
Interesting Thread
In my humble opinion, a good SS fills a need for both the lenders, tc's and NSA's. If they did not fill a need, they would not exist. I have been asked by several of my regular tc's if I wanted to handle a larger area and become my own signing service. I declined as with considerable research, it is a lot more work than I want to do at this stage of my life. Sherry, I know what you go through as I spent a considerable amount of time researching it. I also know that you know what we go through as you wear our shoes also.
When we bash signing services on this board, we are preaching to the choir as the lousy signing services that need to be bashed don't take the time to post or read here. I have worked for several of the services who bother to post here and I have only had one problem and that was caused by me forgetting to enclose an invoice -- my fault.
It is nice to be notified of a poor signing service, title company or lender, but I am not sure that the energy to bash beyond that is useful. I find it more useful to build my paper trail on the non payers and take them to court or collection if need be. In nearly 700 loans in the past couple of years, I only have one who I cannot collect on. Not too bad. When I can and when I am in my home-office, I keep this board up on my screen and when I get a call from an unfamiliar ss, I search it when I still have the service on the phone and read what has been said. This works well. When I am on the road, I listen to how the person speaks and answers my questions. I am usually "booked up" if the persons sounds unprofessional or inexperienced.
I don't know what the answer is. If I could figure out one, I would get rich. I think that market forces will have to sort out the good from the bad SS and NSA's. Unfortunately, I think that we are all going to suffer for a while. ....
| Reply by MichiganAl on 3/22/06 1:22pm
Msg #107799
This doesn't answer the question
You say there are some good SS out there. I'm sure that's true. You say you are a buffer. I don't see that as anything important. I've never needed buffering for any reason. If anything, it's one more step where communtication can break down. The question was, tell us about your day. What you do from start to finish. You get a call from the t.c., you call a notary, assignment set up. What else? Sorry, I don't see anything essential. If SS were eliminated, the process would continue unabated. TC costs would be less and SA would make a more reasonable fee. Nothing personal Sherry, I'm not talking about you in particular. But at a time where businesses are streamlining their operations, I think the SS should be eliminated.
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 1:24pm
Msg #107801
There wasnt any question about what I do......
I appreciate your opinion....have you read the whole thread?
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 1:29pm
Msg #107808
I want to keep the agents who take those $50 signings and...
get rid of those primadonna agents who feel they are worth $100+. NOW THIS IS not MY PERSONAL OPINION.....I am just making a statement here.....
Now doesnt this perturb you Michigan Al? Well it is the same thing you (not you personally)are saying about the validity in what I do and yes I am offended.
| Reply by ColleenCA on 3/22/06 1:42pm
Msg #107823
Re: In Michigan Al's Defense....
That question was asked twice in two prior threads, and no SS has answered it directly. I guess it comes down to choosing to go through a middle man (SS) or not. I personally work with only a select few SS's and the rest are TC's. I feel completely confident in my abilities and do not like the 3rd party and a possible breakdown in communication. It is so much easier to deal direct. That is just the way I choose to run MY business. Others may have a differing opinion. Also, I am getting so sick of answering calls from SS's that are offering those lowball fees. My phone has been ringing off the hook today and most have been low offers and we are at EOM!
| Reply by MichiganAl on 3/22/06 2:36pm
Msg #107840
Re: I want to keep the agents who take those $50 signings and...
No, it doesn't perturb me at all. I know that without the signing agent, there is no signing. Without the signing service, the loan can still proceed. So us, essential. You, not so much. Just a plain old fact. If you're offended, I can only imagine it is because the facts hit home a little.
And as to your first question, yes I read the entire thread. And all 47 responses you had. Me thinks the lady doth protest too much. Did YOU read the first two threads that started all this? I would think you did since you posted this as a part 2. But I guess not. The whole point is about what you do during your day and why you're essential to the process, not how you feel about this and that and who you entrust and the glamour of your job and the relationship that you build. What does that have to do with anything? Nothing but smoke and mirrors, no real answers. I'm sure you're a very good middleman, er middlewoman, but let's be honest. That's all you are.
| Reply by AngelinaAZ on 3/22/06 3:28pm
Msg #107852
AL -In regards to the middleman.......
I agree that they are the middleman and depending on the TC... the good ones probably provide a worthwhile service. The biggest difference is the value that these middlemen place on the service they provide.
When I was a buyer... I used several different 'sourcing agents' that would bring me the best of the best to choose from. I would pay them a percentage to do this sourcing and gathering of background information. I would not pay them anywhere close to the same amount that the seller himself was paid for the actual product.
They provide a screening and sourcing service... great. That service has value... but on a scale of the value of the signing... their service has far less importance than mine... yet on average they take such a big chunk.
I don't think that at first the TC's ever imagined that the SS took just a large portion. I think that we are seeing more and more TC's cutting out the middleman BECAUSE they have realized that somewhere... some idiot will do it for $50... and they see the Notary Fee as a way to cut overhead. The value of an outside closer has been severely diminished by Cheap SS's and cheap SA's. When an SS asks me to take $100 because they are only getting $125...???????? Ummmm??????????? I just have nothing to say! I don't speak idiot!
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 4:05pm
Msg #107862
AL...
No I did not read the other posts and my post part was in reference to another post that I did months ago....you have a right to your opinion as do I..lets leave it at that....
| Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/22/06 2:14pm
Msg #107834
Re: There is still a question about what you do. . .
According to your first post, you:
1. Put up with a lot of aggravation, just like signing agents do.
2. Entrust your business to people you don't know.
3. Have a very large database with WONDERFUL agents (we know who we are)
4. Are not always paid the amount that is listed on the HUD because you know of one title company that "cushions" the HUD.
5. Think that owning a SS isn't really as glamorous as we think it is.
6. Do your best to build relationships with the agents you work with.
7. Feel that signing services are an intricate part of the industry.
8. Assist your clients by providing them with the best in the industry.
9. Are between us and the title company and save us from some of the wrath.
10. Think its much more cost effective for a TC to use an SS because then they do not have to hire a full time person to do what you do.
Whew, that's a busy day! But we still don't know what you do other than call us on the phone, schedule a signing, send us the docs, and then pay us. We know how you FEEL about what you do, we just don't know what it is that you are doing. Or is my list pretty much it?
| Reply by MichiganAl on 3/22/06 2:59pm
Msg #107847
Exaaaaaaaactly. n/m
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 4:11pm
Msg #107864
I didnt start this thread to ask myself what I do guys.....
There seems to be some confusion..I guess some are assuming read or posted something a few days ago about what a signing services does..well sorry that wasnt me and I have no idea what you guys are talking about...If someone would like to know what I do..all you have to do is ask.
| Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/22/06 4:23pm
Msg #107869
Re: Asking!!! I'm asking!! Asking and asking! n/m
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 5:00pm
Msg #107879
Re: Asking!!! I'm asking!! Asking and asking!
Lets see....I am not as involved as I used to be....I have 3 wonderful schedulers that do the majority of the work and a biller who does the billing. I started SLB after being an SA for 2 years so I know both sides of the coin....
My personal responsibilities:
- WE currently have 500+ SA's in our database that I personally need to keep files on (contractors packets, E&O information, W-9's, etc)...auditing of those files is a constant job
-We currently have 70+ clients that I am in contact with regularly to follow-up on closings - constant mantainence of relationships (ie, business trips, phone calls, letters)
- Cut and sign 200+ checks weekly not to mention stuffing the envelopes and stamping.
- 1099's at end of year
- new client marketing...
- Preparing and sending proposals to clients for new condo complexes...with closer specs, etc
- Currently assisting a client with getting set up in Maryland....we go in ahead of time and interview potential closers to work with regularly - in Maryland, I also have to get copies of TPL's and Surety Bonds for the lenders approval
- Marketing to new clients
- In 2 seperate lawsuits with TC's who owe me $5000+ - closers have all been paid so had they not been working through us, they probably would have never seen their money. Just to answer this question before it is asked....I do daily checks and statement on the accounting end...These outstandings were accumulated over a months time frame so I was on top of it...Just FYI
- posting of $4000+ per day in receivables
- And I have been known to assist in scheduling, billing, and wherever I am needed.
- Constantly putting out fires...On Monday, I received a call from one of my clients who I work with regularly saying "the broker is pissed...your closer was giving the borrower advice...we never want to use that closer again!" After realizing who the closer was I knew that it was nearly impossible that she would do that so I called my client and persuaded him to contact the borrower and get their side..Sure enough broker was lying to cover his own butt....
SCHEDULERS DUTIES
- receive order via web or phone
- use existing database to match closer with order - sometimes we need to call 10+ at EOM to fill this order...I am sure if the TC's were handling this themselves, it would be a big headache.
- negotiate fees for closers with client
- Create a closing confirmation for the closer
- Create a closing confirmation for the client
- Put closing into our scheduling system
- Oops closing was cancelled - reschedule with another closer for Tuesday because the one that was scheduled for Monday was booked....
- Oops - closer cant print docs...backs out at last minute - its 5pm and need to have closer their by 5:15 - reschedule another closing
- Receive call from potential client..stop what I am doing to explain the service we provide..set them up in the system, send out marketing materials
- Another problem...closer in car accident...client frantic because closer never showed up for closing...need to calm client down and find a new closer for a closing that should have happened a half hour ago.
- OOPs - client call in - need to have 2 closers at our office for 4 consecutive loans in one hour.
- Find closers and send confirmations - receive call from same client cancelling 2 of those closing but now want another person to meet the borrower at their home by 6pm....Reschedule
- Client calls and chews our heads off..closer did not get docs for the purchase dropped yesterday so the loan cant fund...I get on the phone with the closer..client is right...closer stuck in traffic couldnt drop docs...now in order to save face...I get on the phone with a courier service to get docs delivered to TC...Courier is charging me $300...well guess what, I eat it to save face and keep the piece...
- move ahead to 9pm still receiving ordersr to schedule....one for 10pm one for 11pm....this is EOM of course.
Are we getting the gist of it yet???
Finally turn off computer at 11pm
Next morning...8am...need to check email for closing completions so that I can send email confirmation to clients that their loans closed without error...in reading a completion, I realize that there was a problem with the Jones loan last night...call closer to see what happened because they couldnt reach the client...Call client and inform them of what happened....Back to completions.
Invoices.....Invoice all clients from previous day - usually between 20-40 invoices to do.....Put in bills from closers....heaven forbid we accidently miss one, we will get a horrible reputation as a nonpaying SS so we better be careful.
The list goes on and on.....My point is is that there is an extreme benefit to working with a GOOD SS and I am not trying to sound cocky but I feel that mine is good. Instead of calling 10-15 people to try and fill an order, the TC's just call us and we provide them with the best in the business....I think what you guys dont understand is that if you have a mutually respectful relationship between you and the SS you work for (not the bad ones), it can work really well for you too...
| Reply by Glenn Strickler on 3/22/06 2:34pm
Msg #107839
Hey, Al
"But at a time where businesses are streamlining their operations, I think the SS should be eliminated."
Al, the TC's and Lenders are cutting back by hiring a ss to schedule their needs. By just paying the SS a flat fee to get the loan signed, the TC's and Lenders do not have to hire that extra person or two or three and provide them salary or worker's comp insurance. In many states, workers comp is a heavy burden.
Like I said in a previous post, I have had several TC's ask me to act as a signing service in their behaf. Having been responsible for things like payroll expenses and workers comp insurance in my retail life, it is a place where I personally do not want to go anymore. Why don't you become a signing service? Should be easy, right?
| Reply by Jenni Wagner on 3/22/06 2:45pm
Msg #107842
Re: Hey, Al
I have only been a SA for 8 months. I have had to rely on SS for work. What is the trick to getting in with TC's? It seems I live in a "who you know" state.
| Reply by MichiganAl on 3/22/06 2:58pm
Msg #107846
Re: Hey, Al
The TC already has to make a phone call or e-mail the SS. Why does it take extra staff to just make that call directly to a SA instead? I can easily provide a list for them, by county, of the top SAs in Michigan. I'm sure others could do the same.
As a prior business owner and manager of several retail operations myself, I agree that I don't ever again want the headache of dealing with the aspects of having people work for me. But that doesn't in any way show that a SS is ESSENTIAL to the process. We're not talking about payroll and workers comp issues, that proves nothing about their value.
| Reply by Glenn Strickler on 3/22/06 3:28pm
Msg #107851
Re: Hey, Al
Think of all the states, counties, phone numbers, w9's, 1099's etc that need to be kept track of. It is far eaiser and cheaper for the lender or tc to send one email or make one phone call to the ss with a list of work and say "cover this" than to handle every signing on their own. If it wasn't , don't you think the demand for signing services would dry up?
| Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 3/22/06 4:13pm
Msg #107865
Thank you Glenn for saying what my mouth couldnt. n/m
| Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/22/06 4:36pm
Msg #107875
Re: TC vs. SS
If the SSs make as many errors as some signing agents suspect occur, then it takes time, money and human resources for the title company to follow up and correct things, smooth things over with their customers, pay penalties, etc.
I worked in bank operations at one time, we needed almost as many employees to follow up with and keep track of outsourced functions as we did to perform those functions in-house - it's just that we couldn't convince the muckety-mucks that it didn't make sense to lose control of the work for so little return. Or maybe there was a cost benefit we weren't let in on. We just suspected that they had read in their management journals that outsourcing was the way to go, and away we went.
It depends on management of the company operations, of course. Good management, good company.
| Reply by eXpedN_TX on 3/22/06 3:37pm
Msg #107854
My thoughts about an SA and SS...
I think SA's are somewhat like "what I think an SS" is, only they focus on their area. It a TC calls me directly, I negotiate the price, etc. If all is kosher there and if I am unavailable, I tell them my business partner will handle that particular signing. If the distance is too far, I refer the, to a) either someone I feel comfortable referring, or b) I refer them to this website. Usually they get me off this website, anyway.
The SS has a larger database because they get assignments for all over North America.
Let me break it down:
1) Receive the service call
2) Negotiate the price depending on needs: faxbacks, edocs, miles, time of signing, etc.
3) SA receives confirmation
4) Calls the borrower to set up appointment, get directions, inquire about ID - is it current, how is the name spelled, etc.
5) Print docs - if in step 2 it is determined you are getting edocs.
6) Place tabs throughout the docs (ok, I do this if I have the time because it helps me in the long run because I can look over everything).
7) Call TC if you have any questions or concerns about the docs. (If they are open)
8) Travel to borrowers home (or where you agreed to meet).
9) Verify ID - make copy
10) Fill out journal entries (Some SA's do this step last).
11) Sign docs
12) Give borrowers their set of docs.
13) Prepare docs to ship.
14) Ship docs.
15) Send invoice with comments about the signing - if any.
16) Get Paid.
17) Update your books for tax purposes.
Other step - you may send a confirmation back to TC, you may need to contact TC if you have a question about the docs, etc.
I think the SS's spend most their time on steps 1 -3 then start calling their good SA list. If they don't have someone for that area, they call other SA's hoping they won't get a bad apple. Since they do not go to the signing, the next is they get our invoice and hopefully, last but not least, send the SA their check.
We all know that during down time, we are marketers, web designers (if we maintain our own websites), bookkeepers, etc.
DISCLAIMER: I may have missed a step or two above, but this is the jest of it. All signings are different so there's always some things that need to be modified.
| Reply by Glenn Strickler on 3/22/06 6:30pm
Msg #107898
Bottom line is:
We are just going to have to tough it out and wait for those whose work is not up to par to be naturally thinned from the market. Also, everyone, including me, has had problems from the signing services. But the fact remains, if it were cheaper, faster and better for the TC's and lenders to call the NSA's themselves, they would and the market would drive the signing services out of business. No one is in business to lose money. They are in busniess to make as much as they can.
I have received a couple of private emails accusing me of being a schill for the signing companies. I am not. I am just applying logic to the situation. Something that seems to be missing in the general world today. NSA's who think that the only reason that SS's are in business is to screw the notary, then quit complaining and start your own signing service and make all the big bucks yourselves. Me, well I will continue to post those who don't pay on time and I won't work for the low paying or no paying companies. As far as starting my own ss, well like I said, I am semi-retired and would rather go motorcycle riding and fishing rather than work that hard.
| Reply by Marlene/USNA on 3/22/06 10:18pm
Msg #107960
Re: Bottom line is: retirement!
8 1/2 more years and I'll be joining you in that semi-retired state, Glenn.
I never thought the SSs are in busines to screw the notary, Glenn, I just wasn't sure that the outsourcing was justified. In the recent market, it certainly has been. What company wants to operate 24/7 to settle loans that are created in a 9-to-5 business when the headache can be outsourced for a flat rate?
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