Posted by Brenda/CA on 3/8/06 3:13pm
Msg #103325

title company lost the loose acknowledgement I attached

to a "Quitclaim Deed" for a signing completed in mid January. This loan has already closed and I have been paid. They called me today and said I need to send them a new loose acknowledgement notarized with the date of the signing in Janurary, so they can replace the one they claim is lost. I feel that if they have lost it and want a new acknowledgement to be notarized that the new one should have the date that I redo it. Would my sending them a new one with a January date on it be the same as backdating? I have never experienced this type of request before. Your opinions will be appreciated. TIA

Reply by ColleenCA on 3/8/06 3:20pm
Msg #103328

I would politely tell them "no" and then offer to go back out to the borrower to notarize the quitclaim with todays date. A new fee should be charged of course.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 3/8/06 3:58pm
Msg #103357

That was my first response to them was to go back out to the borrower and notarize this document, but with todays date, and of course a new trip fee. They insist that going out to the borrowers is not needed, because they want a replacement of the notarized loose ack with the original signing date, not a new one with a new date . I feel uncomfortable with that, because it seems to be the same thing as back dating a document, and notarizing without the borrowers present. According to them them if a document is lost they call the original notary to simply re-create it. I have never heard of, nor ever been asked to re-create a loose acknowledgement. I then received a copy of the Quit Claim Deed by e-mail, and an account number to use to overnight the documnt back to them. I called back and left a message for them to call me to again discuss this, and I am still waiting for a return call. Thank you for your response.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 3/8/06 4:21pm
Msg #103361

Yes that is backdating. No you cannot perform an ack on a copy. Producing a copy of the doc means nothing other than the doc exists. The borrower must be present and you must date for the date you complete the certificate. According to them yada yada, you are the notary and you must follow the laws. Don't let them think they know more than you do regarding State Notary Law. Check the county recorders office and see if the QCD was recorded.

Reply by Ilona_OH on 3/8/06 5:43pm
Msg #103390

I had a company use that same term of "recreate". What we ended up doing was putting the date the original doc was done on the doc but my notarization was dated with the current date. Thusly the doc was "recreated" and my date was correct.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 3/8/06 3:49pm
Msg #103351

Brenda go on your county recorders web site and see if the QCD was recorded. This request makes no sense. It is a backdating request. Extremely fishy imo.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 3/8/06 4:40pm
Msg #103365

Re:SarahBeth

I went to the county recorders website, and the Quit Claim has not been recorded. I also just had another conversation with the title company. They are pretty upset that I will not recreate this document. She said when a document becomes lost she has no problem getting any of her other noaries to comply with such a request to recreate. I again refused, she stated that they will have to cancel the whole loan and start the process over because this document cannot record. Now she accused me of never attaching the loose ack in the first place, after she already told me it was lost by them. I asked her if I returned a package to them with an important document such as this that had to be recorded was missing the ack, why would they pay me within 3 weeks of the closing, and wait 45 days to tell me I did not attach an ack? I do not feel comfortable with this. Thank you SarahBeth.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 3/8/06 4:42pm
Msg #103368

Re: sorry that s/b notaries not noaries n/m

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/8/06 6:25pm
Msg #103402

Oh humor me here, I'm feeling masochistic today....

Okay - lets pretend that you do another loose acknowledgement to replace the one they lost (and your escrow officer is right, btw, about "other notaries"...more on that later). You fill one out, referencing the document (your quitclaim deed) and the date, etc. etc. You're replacing the one that was lost. Can you not drive to the title company, ask to see the quitclaim deed and staple your acknowledgement to it? You would have seen the qc deed, referenced it in the loose acknowledgement, and stapled it yourself. You and Sarah Beth call that "backdating"??

Your escrow officer is trying to finish something. She needs a quitclaim deed because her loan recorded without one, and whoopsie...the lender is a tad irritated. Lender is calling her, saying..."get that qcdeed recorded". Escrow lost your acknowledgement....so what do they do? They call you just like they'd call any notary they hire when there's a problem with the certificate and they need help.

It's a QUITCLAIM deed, what do you think escrow is going to do with your loose acknowledgment....copy it and try to commit real estate fraud, when as escrow, they are designated as a neutral escrow depository; and regulated to the hilt - further, they are the deep pockets in a claim...you think they're DELIBERATELY setting themselves up for some sort of wrong-doing? Where is everyone's common sense here?

Brenda...not hollering at you specifically, but you'll not get called back to work for that title company again, and all because you're "uncomfortable". What, are you sweating?

It is NOT freakin backdating, so don't even bother; I've had this argument 50 times already on this forum about backdating.

If overly officious notaries want to deny a reasonable request from a title company to correct a problem, all for the glory of climbing on your soapbox and screaming "BACKDATING!" and feeling like some sort of notary hero, think again.

Let the games begin, but frankly I could care less what response I get when I hear a story like this. Good god, get a grip on your role in a real estate transaction. The notary is NOT the end-all, be-all, almighty holder of everything thats true and good. Now and then the title company who's trying like hell to accomodate everyone, IS!

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/8/06 7:03pm
Msg #103406

Re: Oh humor me - Okay, if you say so....but...



**...get a grip on your role in a real estate transaction. The notary is NOT the end-all, be-all, almighty holder of everything thats true and good. **


Okay, if you say so....but do you think I could at least play that "almighty holder" role on tv someday?

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/8/06 10:03pm
Msg #103436

Re: Oh humor me - Okay, if you say so....but...

So on top of being Mother Know It All, you want to be Almighty Holder as well?? Sheesh, some folks ambition...it must be a Texas thing.

Reply by Becca_FL on 3/8/06 10:46pm
Msg #103447

LOL! Two wonderful ladies.... n/m

Reply by janCA on 3/8/06 7:04pm
Msg #103407

I agree TitleGal

or if the Title Company is out of the area/state, have them fax you the completed, signed QC, check your journal for the entry, attach a replacement acknowledgement and send it off. I also do not consider this BDing. You witnessed the borrower sign the QC on that specific date. Reference this on the loose cert. if you choose to and in your journal.

Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 3/8/06 8:19pm
Msg #103418

Re: I agree TitleGal

I think a call to the SOS is in order. I would really like thier opinion on it.

Reply by PAW on 3/8/06 8:33pm
Msg #103420

For FLORIDA notaries ...

Please note that we, in FL, cannot do this. From the Florida Governor's Reference Manual for Notaries, page 29:

Corrections

When necessary to correct information already printed in the notarial certificate, i.e., the date, the name of the person whose signature is being notarized, do not use correction fluid. Simply mark through the incorrect information and make the change before you complete the notarization. You should probably initial that change, also.

Once you “complete” the notarization and return it to the document signer, you may not amend your certificate. For instance, if you forgot to state the type of identification or affix your seal and the document is returned to you on a later date by the receiving party, you may not correct your error. The document will require re-notarization, including the presence of the document signer.


The above is just a clarification for FLORIDA notaries only.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 3/8/06 8:42pm
Msg #103422

Re: TitleGal

I was convinced that this was backdating, and I did refuse to do it. As I stated I had never had this request before. I respect your opinion as I know you work in this area. I stand corrected, thank you for your reply. I also sent an e-mail to the title company to let them know if they still need me to correct this I would oblige. Thank you to all for your replies.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/8/06 9:35pm
Msg #103432

Re: TitleGal - Brenda

Will you email me? Thank you

I respect both you and SarahBeth alot, and didn't mean to make you feel bad, it's just a perfect example of how things can go wrong, and instead of a fix, it becomes a larger problem. I do think that there is definitely an air of paranoia in this forum and do my best to show the other side, and how a simple thing can turn into Plots to Destroy the World.

It's sort of my pet peeve.

Reply by Becca_FL on 3/8/06 8:47pm
Msg #103423

TG, speaking for/to Florida Notaries here...

what you are saying is NOT acceptable in Florida. In Florida this is back-dating.

Just my .02.

Reply by Becca_FL on 3/8/06 9:06pm
Msg #103425

Opps. just saw PAW's post

Didn't mean to be redundant.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 3/8/06 9:28pm
Msg #103430

I know about Florida, Paul's posted the language before, thx n/m

Reply by John_NorCal on 3/8/06 10:42pm
Msg #103445

Re: Oh humor me here, I'm feeling masochistic today....

Amen TitleGal. I agree with you 100%. As a notary you have already acknowledged the signature on the quit claim. Send a new acknowledgement, just be sure to reference the quit claim in the "optional" description box. What is so hard about that? As TitleGal says, "It is NOT back dating!" There is not a new document involved that the notary has not personally acknowledged the signature. I have done this in the past, and I will continue doing it when it makes sense and I feel certain that nothing fishy is going on.

Reply by Jon on 3/9/06 12:53am
Msg #103462

My opinion is that what is being requested is not backdating. I have no problem replacing a cert that is lost, as the signers did acknowledge or swear on that date.

My problem is with sending the cert loose. Ca Civil Code 1188 says "An officer taking the acknowledgment of an instrument shall endorse thereon or ATTACH(emphasis mine) thereto a certificate substantially in the form prescribed in Section 1189."

It seems to me that the notary must attach the cert themselves in order to be compliant with the law. I never send a loose ack.

Normal disclaimer, this is not legal advice, yada, yada, yada. Use at your own risk.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 3/9/06 11:53am
Msg #103595

I've done this before too... I don't think it is backdating... the previous date IS the date that they sat and signed in front of me.

I have the same rules for loose acks in my state and I asked the TC to fax me a copy of the document. I stamped it COPY, attached the new ack, and included instructions to 'please file with original'. I don't know if that will fly where you are but I felt like I did the right and best thing for all involved.

When this has happened... only twice... I made copies of all the stuff and filed it with notes and a copy of the page in my Journal.

Reply by Blueink_CA on 3/9/06 11:22am
Msg #103584

I called CA SOS on this request before..

A title co requested a loose ack because the rider wasn't attached to the DOT when they first recorded. They sent Bo the rider for sig and now they needed me to send another ack. SOS said that since a rider was added, the document changed. It would have to be notarized again as a new doc.