Posted by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 5/22/06 2:04pm
Msg #121502

Agent not able to explain OPTION ARM........

I am attempting to find the official definition of a notary signing agent to provide to my client. Said client is trying to get away with not paying notary because the notary was not familiar with an OPTION ARM. I of course am defending the notary whereas I do not feel that it is the agents responsibility (bordering on illegal) to go into any great detail regarding terms of a loan. The loan SHOULD ALREADY be closed once the agent arrives. An agent SHOULD be able to give a basic synopsis of each page of the loan but it is not their job to expalin the terms of a loan. What kills me is that my client is a lender,,shouldnt this have all been ironed out prior to closing..Now they are trying to pawn the rescission off on my closer...

Any formal definition would help so that I can have some ammunition to hit my client with....Thanks in advance

Reply by Missy_Lulu on 5/22/06 2:23pm
Msg #121504

More importantly would be your state laws on the definition of UPL (Unauthorized Practice of Law).

Reply by cyndi_ca on 5/22/06 2:25pm
Msg #121505

Sherry Try this link

http://mortgage-x.com/library. This might explain it for you.

Reply by Missy_Lulu on 5/22/06 2:29pm
Msg #121507

Not that the NNA is extremely popular to many but I believe they hold some clout with the mortgage industry companies. Their definition of UPL is:
Practice of law by a person who is not a legal professional. Illegal act of a nonattorney in helping another person to draft, prepare, complete, select or understand a document or transaction

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 5/22/06 2:37pm
Msg #121508

THANK YOU BOTH FOR YOUR HELP...it is truly appreciated n/m

Reply by cyndi_ca on 5/22/06 2:39pm
Msg #121510

Re: THANK YOU BOTH FOR YOUR HELP...it is truly appreciated

Did you find your answer? It looks to me an option ARM gives you the ability to choose from 4 diff payment options vs traditional loans where the payment stays the same. With the option ARM, you are able to change your payments from month to month.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 5/22/06 2:47pm
Msg #121511

Re: Agent not able to explain OPTION ARM........It is the

Loan Officer's responsibility to explain all terms of loan, not the Notary Public/Notary Signing Agent.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 5/22/06 2:49pm
Msg #121512

And I agree... n/m

Reply by Tierney & Associates on 5/22/06 3:04pm
Msg #121518

Sherry,
In California and most states, it is illegal to sell mortgages without an active Real Estate Licence. It is illegal to even discuss the terms of a loan offering with a borrower without a licence. Granted this law is not always followed by mortgage companies that hire loan agents based more on their ability to "Close Loans" than on their legitimate credentials.

A notary commission does not authorize a person to act as a licenced real estate agent.
Mike T.

Reply by PAW on 5/22/06 11:39pm
Msg #121640

I think you are confusing a RE agent's license with an MBL, Mortgage Brokers License or a LOL, Loan Officer License. As far as I am aware, a real estate broker or agent cannot sell a mortgage, but mortgage brokers can.

Just some tangent information -

Difference between a mortgage broker and a loan officer:

A loan officer acts as the conduit between buyer and lender. Most states require the mortgage broker to be licensed, while others do not. States regulate lending practice and licensing, but the rules vary. Most have a license for those who wish to be a "Broker Associate", a "Brokerage Business", and a "Direct Lender".

A mortgage broker is normally registered with the state, and personally liable (punishable by revocation or prison) for fraud for the life of a loan. A loan officer is typically not liable for their actions, and instead works under the umbrella license of their current institution. Typically, they have less experience in the field.

Also, loan officer usually connotes someone who works for a lender, and has involvement in the internal processes of a lender. A broker exclusively uses the money of others to fund their loans.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/22/06 3:08pm
Msg #121521

Sherry - thanks for batting on the notary's side.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 5/22/06 3:12pm
Msg #121522

No thanks needed....some of these companies just realy floor me with their views of what a signing agent shoulbe responsible for.....it just as perturbing from my perspective.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/22/06 3:24pm
Msg #121528

I remember one company about 4 years ago, the borrowers wouldn't sign. The loan officer called the signing service and asked them what kind of notaries were they sending out that couldn't close on a loan. Luckily the SS was on my side, and told them their notaries are not out there to close the loans, that is the LO's job, the notary's is to get the docs signed correctly and notarized.

Reply by Ndwa on 5/22/06 3:43pm
Msg #121531

I'd tell them $150 is for notaries only, and $300 for loan closers.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 5/22/06 4:25pm
Msg #121539

Just an update on what I wrote to my client

Here is most of the email that I sent them...Waiting to hear their response..LOL

....attached is our rates and policies manual. I believe that we sent this to you when we first started working with you but here it is anyway. I am sure you can understand since you were in the SS business ….We cannot NOT pay our closers if a loan rescinds because if that were the case, we wouldn’t have a whole lot of closers who would not want to work with us. If they print docs, go to a borrowers home, witness signatures and notarize documents (all correctly mind you) than I cannot justify not paying them for rescissions.



It is by no means SLB’s policy to have closers “convince” a borrower to sign documents by implying they have the 3 day ROR to think about it. It is the agents responsibility to address the ROR form with the borrower along with all of the other documents in a loan package and if a borrower chooses to rescind, that is the borrowers right.



As far as ________ not understanding the option ARM, I apologize. ______ should have contacted someone if she herself did not understand the terms. On most of the loans that we close, the borrowers are fully aware of the terms of their loan prior to the agent arriving to the closing. There is a fine line between a notary touching on docs and The Unlawful Practice of Law (As defined by the National Notary Association -Practice of law by a person who is not a legal professional. Illegal act of a nonattorney in helping another person to draft, prepare, complete, select or understand a document or transaction) - Anyway from what I was told, the borrower also spoke to someone from ________ who attempted to explain the option ARM to them so I am not sure what caused the borrower to rescind.........

Reply by John_NorCal on 5/22/06 4:43pm
Msg #121546

Andy that isn't the complete picture though. A loan closer in this instance is one who can "close" the clients on the specifics of the loan, i.e. interest rate, terms, etc. That person at least in California is going to need a real estate license unless they are working as a consumer loan broker under the Dept of Corporations. Consequently, they earn a commission for their "closing" of a sale. So in this instance, if the borrower were to go to a title company to sign their papers, I wonder, would the title company be expected to "close" the loan/sale?
The nerve of some people!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/22/06 8:18pm
Msg #121592

Good points! I feel it is potentially misleading to refer to us as "closers", and as you pointed out, clearly inappropriate in California. It just adds to the confusion and potentially wrong expectations, as in this case. And how many lenders do we all know who would strongly prefer that we not try to explain these loans at all, due to their complexity?

This lender/LO seems to want to share the risk and responsibility for getting this loan sold but are they willing to share in the commission? I think not!

Reply by NCLisa on 5/22/06 9:11pm
Msg #121618

This lender just doesn't want to pay out of his pocket. His company may deduct the notary fee from his monthly commisson.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 5/22/06 4:35pm
Msg #121543

Hope you are feeling better Sylvia.........

never got a chance to say it earlier wheras I have been avoiding the board for awhile. Glad to see you back!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/22/06 4:43pm
Msg #121545

Re: Hope you are feeling better Sylvia.........

Thanks Sherry
I actually did my first signing today since I went into the hospital. I have been turning down signings since I came out. But my regular companies keep calling me to see if I am back, so I am happy to say I am not losing any business. My signing services business hasn't suffered either, for which I am very happy.
I am not going to be doing too many signings for a while. I am still not up to par.
Friday the doctor had me get bloodwork done for Sjogren's Syndrome.
And, of course, I have to see the surgeon in July to discuss reversing the colostomy.

Reply by Missy_Lulu on 5/22/06 4:44pm
Msg #121547

Re: Hope you are feeling better Sylvia.........

Why have you been avoiding the board?! I love the fact that you are able to lend a bit of the flip side of things to the forum. If one cannot be cross-trained, having the ability to converse with someone from the other aspects of the mortgage industry is very productive. IMO, of course.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 5/22/06 5:06pm
Msg #121554

Avoiding the board....

I dont mind talking with a lot of the people on here because there are many people that have a wealth of knowledge and have also helped me see things from a different perspective constructively mind you..BUT on the flip side, there are a few on here that really have nothing constructive to say and I really felt myself becoming extremely negative and defensive and tha isnt my personality at all...had to take a break for awhile....

Reply by Blueink_CA on 5/22/06 5:15pm
Msg #121556

Re: Avoiding the board....

Sherry, I always appreciate the perspective of a SS. Don't allow any posters to rent space in your head. Thank's for your frank and open comments on here.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 5/22/06 5:45pm
Msg #121564

Re: Avoiding the board....

I think that is why I needed to take a break....clear my head and kick those sorry renters out...I appreciate your kind words...

Reply by MichiganAl on 5/22/06 6:35pm
Msg #121574

Re: Avoiding the board....

Sherry, I mean this in the nicest way possible and not as an attack. I appreciate a SS perspective, but I can imagine that one of the reasons some people get annoyed with you is that your threads have a habit of getting so bloated that they can't even begin to take the time to go through the entire thread to figure out the important points of the conversation. It's just my humble opinion, but I think some of us might find your threads much easier to read if you didn't have to make a personal comment or rebuttal of every single response. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to maybe save you some future grief.

Reply by Missy_Lulu on 5/22/06 8:53pm
Msg #121611

Re: Avoiding the board....

I would invite some productive correspondence with a positive minded SS if you like.
[e-mail address]

Reply by M LaBelle on 5/22/06 4:46pm
Msg #121549

Excellent letter Sherry

Sherry,
The letter is great. And a notary is not there to sell the loan.
I agree 100% with your letter.
www.mlabellenotary.info

Reply by NCLisa on 5/22/06 9:05pm
Msg #121614

Not agents job

It is 100% the lender/LO/MB job to explain the type of loan. Even as an escrow officer it was not my responsibility to explain the loan to the borrowers, just get the docs signed. If the LO needs the loan specifics explained, then they need to either attend the closing, or have it conducted in their office.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 5/22/06 9:25pm
Msg #121619

Insurance Agents in California are required to carry 1 million dollars in E&O coverage. Loan Officers carry $0 because no underwriter will touch them. Is this why they blame their lies on the notaries?

A Signing Agent is only "carrying the paper" to the borrower. The Loan Officer / Salesman is responsible for all aspects of the sale. Already being a certified and in most states bonded Notary Public is the ONLY reason a stranger could be allowed to enter the home of the client. The "paper carrier " should be especially careful not to explain the loan or face the consequences for being looked at as the "mouthpiece" for the loan officer. That is of course unless the Lender would care to split the commission with the Notary.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 5/22/06 10:39pm
Msg #121633

Sherry I haven't read this entire thread

But I agree with Al in Michigan. You're thread do tend to take up pages here as you answer ever response. Not a criticism, but an observation.

I take that back. Truly, it's not necessary to respond to everything. It simply takes up too much space.

My next thought is that an Option Arm is not run-of-the-mill, and I would say that you, as the hiring entity of the nsa should say so, and stick up for your notary. Because you did so, good for you!!

Last, I do appreciate your participation here...with that one teeny, tiny exception of the length of the threads....

Reply by PAW on 5/22/06 11:29pm
Msg #121639

Official definition of a "Notary Signing Agent"

As far as I know, there is none. There is no job description that is commonly used in this or any industry that has a title of "Notary Signing Agent". What the duties and responsibilities of the NSA are, are defined by the hiring agency. Some agencies expect just about anything and everything this side of the Unlicensed Practice of Law to "just point and sign, don't explain". If a hiring company (title or lender) expects the NSA to have a certain knowledge level, then that information needs to be expressed in the order. The level of experience of the NSA's in the mortgage industry vary from nil to loan officer and title agent extraordinaire.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 5/23/06 12:21am
Msg #121643

Re: Official definition of a "Notary Signing Agent"

Paul is correct. And as there is no such definition, I'd suggest you signing services say "buyer beware" when docs come in with things like an "optional arm" and inform your notary as such. That term *optional arm* is NOT the norm, and lenders at least need to take the time to describe the arrangements to SOMEONE.

To let the signing take place without mention of unusual arrangments (and it IS unusual) is a lack of attention by both the lender and the signing service to the borrower; and it is quite convenient to blame the notary.

Shame on you all (lenders and SS's) for setting up a notary in that fashion. It's just plain awful.

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/23/06 12:34am
Msg #121645

I wouldn't blame the SS in a situation like this

I can't imagine it's a common occurrence for them to know the specifics of the type of loan on each signing. They know it's a refi, HELOC, reverse mortgage or sale and that's about it. And there really is no reason for them to inquire beyond that.

Any good signing agent should be able to conduct a signing without ever having laid eyes on the docs before they're at the table. Any good signing service should be willing and able to set the lender or TC straight about the limited function that the signing agent plays in the process.

Unfortunately, we all know there are a lot of bad signing agents and bad signing services and bad loan reps out there. But I think it's better to deal with the occasional situation like Sherry has on her hands than it is to just go into dumbed down overkill mode and have everybody treat everybody like they don't know what their job entails.