Posted by MicheleC on 5/5/06 9:30am
Msg #117926

Alcohol on the job

Well I went on my second signing last night and the client directed me to a bar.

He had multiple questions which he was instructed to call his lender. He stated that there were various things within the documents that were inconsistent with what he had been told by the lender and information regarding his girlfriend was in the paperwork. He cancelled. While I was calling it in he began signing papers again.

Then his order came....A Corona and he began to drink and ask more questions. I told him I am a realtor not a lender nor attorney so the questions he was asking were out of my realm of expertise and should be answered by his lender and or attorney. I

The signing was cancelled.........What have I gotten myself into.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 5/5/06 9:58am
Msg #117937

As far as I can tell, you have done nothing wrong. However, a bar or tavern would not be my first choice to conduct a loan signing. I would have suggested someplace else. I have a small tavern just two miles from me and I frequently get folks calling for notarial work that could'nt find their butt with both hands.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 5/5/06 10:57am
Msg #117950

Smooth move on his part. Did you have a beer too? Where did it go from there? Was there a third signing? Is it me or does it seem like you left out the rest of the story.

As far as Signing at a Bar or Tavern. It's a tough call in California. Inside it's always too dark and noisy. Outside tables are sometimes better but you are around the smokers. And If offered an alcoholic drink turn it down unless you you intend to take the meeting to another level.

Reply by Pat/IL on 5/5/06 11:16am
Msg #117956

I once conducted a early afternoon signing in a bar. Without my knowledge, the borrowers had ordered drinks while I went to find a table with enough window light. When the drinks arrived, I politely asked them to put the drinks aside until the signing was complete, as I was not allowed to notarize any documents if the signers were under the influence while signing.

I don't believe that I even knew the legality of it at the time, but if asked, I would have told them that my company would not allow it. The borrorers complied. With the drinks sitting there getting warm, the signing seemed to go off very quickly.

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/5/06 12:37pm
Msg #117968

Having a drink while signing and being under the influence while signing are 2 very different things. I would have no problem letting people sign while they're having a beer or cocktail as long as they're obviously not intoxicated.

Reply by MicheleC on 5/5/06 3:58pm
Msg #118012

I would not simply because I do not have a MD behind my name nor do I carry a breatholizer. I have been in the medical field for over twenty five years and that just would not hold up in the courts.

Alcoholics don't always look intoxicated, yet we are still arresting people for DUI's.

Good luck!!!

I am still in the learning phase of Notary Public. I don't want anything to go wrong if I can avoid it.

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/5/06 11:10pm
Msg #118073

Well if you don't carry a breathalyzer and you admit that alcoholics don't always look inotixicated, why are you doing any signings at all? You're admitting that a person you're notarizing might be intoxicated and you'd have no way of knowing.

As notaries we're only expected to use our best judgement, so it's ridiculous to say you need an MD or breathalyzer to determine intoxication if somebody is drinking a beer while they're signing. For most adults, one or two beers or cocktails isn't going to put them anywhere near the level of impairment that would necessitate our refusing to notarize their signatures.

Reply by rengel/CA on 5/5/06 12:45pm
Msg #117969

I always request that beverages of any type be placed somewhere other than the table we're signing on. I really don't want liquid spilled on the loan papers. Can you imagine returning loan docs that reek of beer or wine?

My .02
Rhonda

Reply by Paul_IL on 5/5/06 12:59pm
Msg #117972

Pat,
All I can say to your comment is bull! There is no provision that says you cannot Notarize a signature of someone having a drink! Do you always make it a habit to lie to those you do business with? I would have continued to drink my beer and sign the required documents were the notary to tell me that.

You would have looked pretty stupid had the borrower called you on the BS my company won't allow it!

I fail to see how enjoying a beer while signing the papers was such a problem for you!

Reply by Pat/IL on 5/6/06 12:00pm
Msg #118108

There is more to the loan closing process than that found in your notary handbook, Paul. You may never experience any consequences of conducting a signing while the borrowers are drinking. As for myself, I stand by my opinion that the appropriate thing to do is to ask the borrower to put the drinks aside for the duration of the signing.

My experience closing in the bar took place nearly a decade ago. At the time, I was a salaried title officer with a title company that would not allow a signing under conditions that might compromise our interests. I am still with the company, and the same holds true today. So, in answer to your question, no. I don't make it a habit to lie to those I do business with. Folks who know me actually consider me to be honest to a fault.

Frankly, I am surprised that I have to even defend the stupid little anecdote that I posted. I realize that I did not offer you all of the factors and experiences leading to my descision, but that would make for some pretty boring reading. I only wanted to make a cheerful little reply to a valid question.

If you still have a problem with my integrity, intelligence or experience, you can buy me a beer sometime and I will give you all of the tedious details...at least as long as the beer lasts. You see, I have no problem with alcohol. I love it. I just believe that it is unwise to have it at the closing table.

Reply by Paul_IL on 5/7/06 10:50pm
Msg #118302

There is a big difference between having a beer while signing the documents and being drunk and unable to understand what you are signing. Save your experience lessons for someone that will be impressed. I am a title agent for 3 national title companies and I hold a real estate brokers license and have been in this industry since 1989. So save your notary handbook crack for someone that could benefit from it.

I have done numerous closings with borrowers that just got home from work and they walked to the frig and got a couple of beers for themselves. What are you going to do say "No put those back or I will stop this signing"????

Little common sense is what is required here. There are Zero consequences to doing a signing when the borrower is having an after work beer while you sign some paperwork. If it is at the title office then no alcohol is proper but as long as the borrower is not impaired then it is their decision to drink or not to drink. It is your policy that the signer cannot drink not the states policy. What would you have done had the borrower said I intend to drink this before it gets warm so lets get to signing and started to drink?

Reply by lulu on 5/5/06 1:42pm
Msg #117984

Very good judgment call on your part, Pat. As you stated you are not allowed to notarize while under the influence and you are not allowed to notarize for a signer who is under the influence. I didn't interpret what you said as, 'You can't be having an alcoholic beverage while you are signing but rather that the signer could not be under the influence.'
This is a judgment call among many that we must make as an SA. The environment is somewhat in our hands just as we don't prefer there to be any liquid beverages near the documents during the signing. I have been in a situation of a borr just getting home from work when I get there and they open a beer. In that instants I think it's safe to say they are not 'under the influence of alcohol'. I think if you checked with someone of authority at your SOS or even the title company they may be of the same opinion, that no drinking of alcohol is acceptable during a signing but it would probably differ per company. Differ in respect to the seriousness and importance they place on the loan signing process. I think most would find it of great importance. IMO this is yet one more area where we have to be the ones to set the standard and uphold the standard of professionalism of our profession.

Reply by MicheleC on 5/5/06 3:54pm
Msg #118011

LOL. Thanks for the vote of confidence. I may be new, but I do know that any legal document is voided when the consumption of alcohol takes place and since I did not know if he had had any prior to my arrival I was uncomfortable.

For me, his insecurity in signing was my out without having to terminate it myself. It just so happened to be right at the same time that he started drinking in front of me.

Reply by Gina Collins on 5/5/06 11:23am
Msg #117960



CAN YOU REQUEST A SIGNING AT A PARTICULAR LOCATION??? OR DO YOU LEAVE IT UP TO THE SCHEDULER?? I HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE YESTERDAY AT SOMEONES HOUSE SEE TOPICS UNDER RUDE... I DON'T KNOW IF I WANT TO GO TO ANOTHER HOUSE FOR A SIGNING. I SURE DID NEED A DRINK AFTER THE ONE I HAD YESTERDAY....

Reply by janCA on 5/5/06 1:16pm
Msg #117975

I've done a signing at a hotel bar before, the borrower ordered a beer and asked me if I wanted one. Of course, I said no, but I didn't have any problem with him having one. I've done many signings where the husband and/or wife has just gotten home from work and he/she wants a beer or cocktail while signing. Still don't have a problem with that. I've done many signings with the borrowers drinking coffee and offering me coffee and I accept. I just put it out of the way. People should feel comfortable signing and if they want coffee, soda or a drink, so be it, who am I to tell them otherwise?

Reply by SueW/Tn on 5/5/06 1:22pm
Msg #117976

Well said Jan

I couldn't agree more. We're providing a service at the convenience of the borrower, if they have a beer while signing I have no problems with that other than I go on "drip alert" and begin safe guarding my docs with a passion. Everyone smiles, we're all careful and we've got a happy camper. While I've been offered everything from ice water to pot roast I always respectfully decline but DO try to put the borrowers at ease.

Reply by MicheleC on 5/5/06 4:07pm
Msg #118013

Re: Well said Jan

thank you all for you input. This has been inlightening to see what others have endured and your beliefs.

I closed my first on the 3rd of May and the one that I described earlier was my second and to say the least and neither on was what I anticipated.

Tell me something good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply by lulu on 5/5/06 4:47pm
Msg #118024

Re: Well said Jan

You meet a lot of really neat people, see a lot of really neat houses. We are helping borrowers to fit personal business into their busy schedules by accomodating them in their homes. I believe a large portion are very grateful to be able to handle this business at their convenience. I feel good about the service I provide. Is that something good?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 5/5/06 5:24pm
Msg #118031

Cocktails, please! isn't Harry tending bar this afternoon?

I give up! Only 1/3 appts. went through today, gave up a few different appts. not knowing they'd cancel before I got there, and now no one is calling me, Boo Hoo.
Harry, I'll take a Ketel One Martini, extra olives, please, get a round for the house, and oh, yeah...Keep the change babe!

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/6/06 2:51pm
Msg #118124

Re: Cocktails, please! Mistarella - Meet me poolside for a

something peachy, pink, frosty, and light...a Bellini perhaps?

There is a place in Galveston on The Strand that makes some of the best Bellinis in the world.

When I think of Galveston I usually think of Gaido's Seafood on the Seawall....their crab au gratin ...but today I am thinking about a little place called The Strand Brewery.

It's right next to the harbor with lots of tropical plants, good bands and a spacious terrace to dine on -

Skip the seafood and eat the artichoke ravioli topped by a creamy garlic/wine/buttery sauce sprinkled generously with sundried tomatos.

It's better than skipping rope or playing Red Rover.

Ya'll *all* meet me in Galveston tomorrow 'round noon. Find the lifesize chessboard and I'll be on block QB. Ya can't miss me.