Posted by Carolyn Bodley on 5/13/06 3:29pm
Msg #119695
Leon_CO
I haven’t posted for quite some time. However, I must move my hands out from under my rear where they have been in order for me to keep my fingers off the keyboard, because my blood pressure is sky high, and my tongue is getting shorter and shorter from biting it harder and harder after reading your some of posts.
I applaud you on the research you have done on loan documents. I only wish you would take the same amount of time to research the financial end of your business. You talk about *fair* -- fair for everyone but you. You haven’t been doing this for an entire year to be faced with the reality come income tax time. What you charge as fair is not free and clear pocket change. Go back and read the boo-hooing and sticker shock of first full year signers’ income tax posts.
We just paid our house off 12 years ahead of schedule. Does that mean that I don’t need as much money, so therefore, I should lower my signing rates? I not only don’t think so, I know so – it’s not going to happen. I’ve been self-employed since 1992. I know down to the penny what it costs me to operate a business, and I know the profit margin I need for retirement, vacations, cost-of-living, and just plain splurging. It was with my business planning and profit that my business put our son through college without loans of any kind and has enabled us to be free and clear of house payments.
Colorado has the highest automobile insurance rates in the nation. Self-employment didn’t lower my rates, but instead increased them because I am driving more. Gasoline, tires, vehicle maintenance costs have all increased. The cows and chickens aren’t benefiting from the sky rocketing price of milk and eggs at the grocery store – but if I want to drink milk and eat eggs, I must pay the higher price. Utility bills last winter went from all time previous highs of $100 per month to well over $200 per month. With the value of houses rising, property taxes rise accordingly. You can bet your @ss that my once monthly house payment is NOT going to be used to pay these necessities.
You may be busy and you may be making money, but I’ll be around after your burnout. I’d much rather work smarter than your own way of working harder – with me doing 2-3 signings to your 4, 5, 6 or more signings just so you can say you charge fairly.
| Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 5/13/06 5:02pm
Msg #119703
Great post Carolyn. One of the very few that addresses the rising cost of living in addition to business expenses. I think a portion of it should go in 33325.
| Reply by Leon_CO on 5/13/06 5:41pm
Msg #119706
I wish that I were getting 4, 5, 6 signings a day :)
** What you charge as fair is not free and clear pocket change. **
Carolyn, what you are imagining my fees are, and what my **actual** fees are, are most likely different figures. And now I'm guilty of doing the same thing -- imagining what you're imagining my fees are. 
The only thing I can say is that I probably charge more than you imagine I charge. I know what gas costs. I don't get toner cartridges and paper for free. I have to buy these things too. And I have to keep a roof over my head. I have lost a lot of business because companies refused to pay the fee that I quoted. I regretted losing the business, but at the same time I knew that I had to stand by my fee structure.
The comment I made about being "cheap" was in response to the 'hooker' analogy that was made. I didn't think I was on the 'high-price' end, so I simply chose to put myself on the other end. It was misunderstood, as is much of what is said on this board.
This message board has a lot to offer. The unfortunate thing is that people tend to post based on what they imagine, rather than what is real. And when the day comes that I get called out, and accused of things that are unreal, that's the day when I should leave. As we say in German ... Tschüß!
| Reply by SarahBeth_CA on 5/13/06 6:54pm
Msg #119709
Re: I wish that I were getting 4, 5, 6 signings a day :)
Leon, I don't know what you charge. However to me the impression I got from your original post was that you were accepting 50 to 65 overnights. At this point with the cost of living charging even 75 for overnight docs with in 15 miles one way is an absolute rock bottom minimum. Anything less than that and I couldn't put the gas in my car to get my kids to school.
The optimal word here is fair. What is fair to you?
| Reply by Teddog_CO on 5/13/06 11:04pm
Msg #119741
Re: Carolyn and SarahBeth
Carolyn and SarahBeth I got the very same impression after reading Leon's past postings. Cheap is as the word implies-cheap. I do agree Leon can charge what ever he wants. But those of us that have been doing this for a long time know what the end result will be. The cost of doing business is rising every day. Leon has not been working at this profession long enough to realize that running your butt off does not mean you're making a profit.
You have to work smart and charge enough for your services to make a profit. Experience will be Leon's best teacher.
| Reply by PAW on 5/13/06 6:49pm
Msg #119708
You said, "Colorado has the highest automobile insurance rates in the nation."
However, I must disagree. According to http://info.insure.com/auto/rates.html, Colorado ranks 11th. (Best rates can be found in North Dakota, Maine and best of all, Iowa. http://info.insure.com/auto/autorates/dsp_AvgResults.cfm)
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
Any motorist who's braved the traffic-choked streets of New York City, the breakneck pace of the New Jersey Turnpike, or the nearly out-of-control chaos of Interstate 95 will not be surprised to learn that the Northeast is home to four of the five most expensive states for auto insurance, according to figures from the National Association of Insurance Commissioners. The number of claims filed is the primary driver for insurance prices.
In 2001 nationwide (the latest figures available), the average annual combined premium was $817.43 (that includes liability, collision, and comprehensive coverages). Use the tool above to find the average annual auto insurance premiums in each state.
New Jersey ranks highest in the nation for combined average annual auto insurance rates: The latest figures show an average annual combined premium of $1,182.54 in 2001. In the No. 2 spot is New York, at $1,161.27, followed by Washington, D.C. ($1,156.23), Rhode Island ($1,027.03), and Massachusetts ($1013.46).
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
Insure.com, Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Quotesmith.com, Inc.
Originally founded in 1984 as Quotesmith Corporation, Quotesmith.com owns and operates Insure.com, a comprehensive online consumer insurance information service that caters to the needs of self-directed insurance shoppers. Insure.com provides a comprehensive array of comparative auto, life and health quotes, including a vast library of originally authored insurance articles and decision-making tools that are not available from any other single source.
Disclaimer: Not affiliated in any way with Insure.com or Quotesmith.com.
| Reply by SueW/Tn on 5/13/06 7:20pm
Msg #119712
I don't understand this attitude...
Leon didn't say a word about his rates other than they are "fair". He was merely posting to the ridiculous post about equating ourselves to whores. Leon hasn't said what his fees are and frankly that's no one's business but his. He has his business plan mapped out, knows his costs and according to what I'm reading he charges accordingly. You would think he's in your backyards stealing your business with $20 fees! My attitude is this: You run your business and let Leon run his. I'm willing to bet he'll be around a very long time charging fair prices, delivering top notch work and standing on his integrity. Sheesh....
| Reply by Drakester_IA on 5/13/06 8:19pm
Msg #119715
Just a thought
One would have to stop and wonder if "Fair" = $50.00 or if "fair" = $100.00 or does "Fair" = $150.00. If my competitor charges $150 for a signing and I charge $140.00 I would have to be considered cheap and more fair than my competitor. And if the nation avg. is "$100.00" for a single and I am charging $95.00 I am considered fair and cheap. But who are we to assume?
Just a thought and this ofcourse is IMHO
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/13/06 8:41pm
Msg #119716
Re: Just - DRAKESTER - that's JUST IT - YOU HIT THE NAIL
on the head ! And you re-emphasized a confusing concept...what's fair??? what's cheap???
What will it do to the NSA if this kind of language is used without a point of reference? Most assuredly, hang in here another year and this will become clearer.
It's kind of hard for the ones who read this post to make a determination. If $50 is stated to be what "everyone will do" by the standards of the signing service who tells the newbie this, then "Well...let's make a fairer price! I'll drop mine to $48.50"
See...to cheapen our value on the board without more specific attachment to value is misleading new people. Next month a new person will become even more fair than Leon ever dreamed, perhaps...or "cheaper."
We must be clear that this is not a profit-maker at $50 a pop in MANY states...especially Texas.
If Leon wants to charge a buck fifty, that's his business...but to discuss fair and cheap and that people know when we are taking advantage of their wealth is I-M-H-O very, very dangerous to us all in that and the previous context without more specifics as a starting point.
Why not just tell a newbie - you'll get tips and do well if you really go cheaper than average. But, what is average??? Ask the SS...they'll tell you it's $45-60.
| Reply by Drakester_IA on 5/13/06 9:15pm
Msg #119717
absolutely right Brenda....But how do you fix it without ...
Crossing the line. And what I meant in my previous post is we do not know what or how much Leon is charging. I think in the end all will take care of it's self. (I HOPE)
| Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 5/13/06 9:46pm
Msg #119720
Re: Ok my 2 cents from an experienced whore
First I can't accept every work order I get a call for (they may want a blonde or a burnette, well hell I'm a hefty redhead). I'd love to but it's impossible for a variety of reasonS, not available, already scheduled, personal plans. On the flip side(roll over buddy) I don't get every call I want( I might like em tall and big, short and fat, bald and old) I absolutely will accept a trick for 55 bucks if it's overnighter and I can walk to the signing, a few doors down, this has happened. I got a call on Friday from a new ss, they pay really well, guy wanted a 20 page app(my speciality), 5 miles from my house $75.00, no notarizations, just collect paperwork. Fastest trick I ever turned. I had never been to this neck of the woods and enjoy the five minute drive, everything is in bloom here, so pretty.....
To me it all comes out in the wash but 50 bucks, full set, I print, 20 miles away.....ya gotta be mad or at best wasting your time......unless your bored....but I'd rather clean the toilets....
| Reply by Drakester_IA on 5/13/06 10:03pm
Msg #119721
Re: Ok my 2 cents from an experienced whore
Approximately 2 months ago I opened my mouth on this forum and had it slapped and have not posted since. I beleive I have read almost every post since but have not posted. I think I will go back to reading. Too much misinterpretation. I am one of the Highest in my area, and beleive in my state. I was merely trying to put reason, sensibility and reasonable doubt to an attack with out knowing the full scoop. I do appologize if I have offended. I can not, do not and will not whore myself for any price no matter the analogy. I charge a darn good fee, had one 2 blocks away and charged OVER 100.00 edoc. My Fee is my fee no matter the distance. Declined one yesterday for $5.00 differance. Again I will go back to reading.
| Reply by SueW/Tn on 5/13/06 10:15pm
Msg #119722
And again I'm going to ask...
Where in Leon's post does it say he works for that fee? I believe I've seen him post a time or two about taking O/N edoc HELOC near his home for that fee. I do that myself, it's a win/win situation when I've got less than 30 pages, borrowers have them and I could walk on a nice day. BUT the point is...who's putting that price tag on someone's else's work because Leon certainly has NOT stated that. And I'm sorry but I'm not even going to the comparison between a public official and a whore, this isn't grade school but a public forum meant for professional agents. I agree with you Drakester, what is "fair to one isn't fair to another", it's all in the perception of the reader. Leon has my respect for speaking his truth and I certainly wish him well in his business. Some of the posters sound like they'd like nothing better than for him to fail....well rock on Leon, get 'er done!
| Reply by lulu on 5/14/06 7:10pm
Msg #119828
Re: And again I'm going to ask...
*And I'm sorry but I'm not even going to the comparison between a public official and a whore, this isn't grade school but a public forum meant for professional agents. *
*Leon has my respect for speaking his truth and I certainly wish him well in his business. Some of the posters sound like they'd like nothing better than for him to fail....well rock on Leon, get 'er done!*
Here! Here! Sue. IMO this is a professional forum. I guess I picture being at some conference and having someone of stature approach me to tell me they saw my post comparing a Notary Public to a common w**** regarding services or otherwise. I would crawl in a hole! I would like to think that our profession is beyond reproach. I guess maybe I just hold myself to a high standard and have a preconceived notion of the level of professionalism that should be required as a notary. The thought that one would be at a convention with officials from other countries and have one of them overhear me using such an analogy. Yep. Good ol' U.S. of A. That's just what I would want them to take home as a high point of their trip here to meet the fine upstanding notaries. LOL but then my mother was one of those that made sure you had clean underwear on when you went somewhere just in case you have an auto accident and someone saw your underwear. Leon you go for it! Whatever makes your world turn and works for you.
| Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 5/13/06 10:28pm
Msg #119725
Re: Ok my 2 cents from an experienced whore
Ladies and gentlemen you all have excellent points, all this hooker and whore talk, thought I 'd try to add a little humor. I run my business as I run my business, I'm rarely offended by anyone's words. Drakester don't stop posting and only read, everyone's post is of some value even if only to them. Shoot, I even miss FlaMac, she added something to the board......even if the gal was jumped on daily......It's life, have a laugh, no need to be so serious 24-7.......
Don't you love laughter.....it is the best.....to hear laughter from the soul....
The sweetest sound I ever heard as a younger woman was when my boy used to laugh, it was so rich and full of life, it came from deep within...LAUGH
| Reply by GenB_CA on 5/13/06 10:38pm
Msg #119729
AMEN....laughter is the best medicine..... n/m
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/13/06 10:55pm
Msg #119735
Re: Ok my 2 cents from an experienced whore
Drakester - LkA always just picks up a thread where she is and writes her responses. I assure you that she was not directing anything at you (based on my observations of prev posts) and she is very dry in wit. I think she was just making a funny...I thought it was pretty "out there" myself.
Are you guys not aware that it's kind of a joke in a few SSs about the notary ho's? I don't make this stuff up. What of it? Laughter and making light of things is the ONLY way to manage life IMHO.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/13/06 11:12pm
Msg #119743
Re: Ok my 2 cents - and by out there I meant funny!
*I thought it was pretty "out there" myself. * Susan knows I am referring to Cosmos Kramer's great quote on Seinfeld.
| Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 5/14/06 10:39am
Msg #119785
Re: Ok my 2 cents - and by out there I meant funny!
Yes, I do what a great show, miss the gang, Elaine/Julia hosted SNL last night, damn I fell asleep shortly after it began.....
| Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 5/14/06 10:44am
Msg #119786
Re: Ok my 2 cents - and by out there I meant funny!
Our Cosmos the cat (the crazy one), that went flying off a three story deck 2 years ago, is indeed named after Cosmos Kramer. You might ask, did it make him more crazy, well let me just say he is and always has been extremely loving, he really has the personality of a dog. If you call him or ask him to do anything he does it, not at all independent like his bud Kat Ballou. So if he is mentally challenged, it doesn't show all that much....
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/14/06 4:05pm
Msg #119814
Re: Ok my 2 cents - and by out there I meant funny!
**he really has the personality of a dog**
Oh...I see, he's *channeling* an ancient dog!
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