Posted by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 5/3/06 6:34pm
Msg #117546

New Jersey signing question...

Hi all. I was wondering if one of you knowledgeable NJ agents could clarify something for me. I was under the assumtion (as is my client who happens to be out of NJ) that in the State of NJ (like in the State of FL), any non borrowing spouse must sign the legals (MTG, TIL and RTC). I have a closer who disagrees and says the reason that he did not have them signed is because the wifes name was not listed on the legal docs. I am stuck between a rock and a hard place because I know that in a perfect world the wifes name would be listed but lets get real...this industry is not a perfect world. Any input you guys have would be helpful. Thanks in advance

Reply by NJ_Notary on 5/3/06 6:52pm
Msg #117549

Your right my friend Dont forget any ridgers to the mtg as well

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 5/3/06 7:16pm
Msg #117555

Thank you for your response. It is really appreciated. Now call me stupid or something but if you are an experienced agent (this person is supposed to be a Licensed Title Producer for NJ as well) wouldnt you know to do this even without the names on the page? Gotta love it...LOL..Have a great evening!

Reply by NJ_Notary on 5/3/06 8:06pm
Msg #117562

Hi Sherry,

One would think they would know, but well thats a whole other story. Unfortuantely, the educational requirements for a title producer's license in the State of New Jersey is to vague, not enough, and worthless with respect to "real" title work if you ask me. The education just gets you to pass the state exam, not to review title, issue a policy, etc. Unforunately there are many producers in the state without a clue or a strong foundation; the same can be said for Real Estate Salesperson, Broker-Salespersons, and Brokers as well.

As someone who knows alot there is a tremendous amount that I dont know. My philosophy is that we are continually learning and never know it all. Without knowing all the particulars, it appears the closer seemed like a know it all unfortunately who didnt know it all.

Im Glad I could help ya. Have a wonderful evening!

God Bless!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/3/06 8:27pm
Msg #117566

Sherry
Sometimes there are situations where the spouse does not have to sign.

But, the UPL counsel for the Florida Bar told me a couple of years ago, that if the spouse's name is not on the docs for them to sign, then it would be UPL for me to advise the spouse to sign, unless I had specific instructions from the company that the spouse's signature was required.
So, now when I get docs where the spouse is not listed on the mortgage and other "legals" I call the company and ask them if they want the spouse to sign any of the legals and if so which ones - sometimes they want more than the Mortgage, TIL and RTC signed by the spouse. If they instruct me to get the spouse's signature then I will.
I once had a company tell me just to get the docs signed as per the signature lines, so I did. I know the spouse should have signed the legals, but I did as instructed. The mortgage recorded OK without her signature.

Reply by NJ_Notary on 5/3/06 11:42pm
Msg #117635

In Nj the spouse must sign as well. It may be different in Fl I dont know, but in NJ they must. I have come across both audits and other situations where it was done improperly and it had to be corrected. A very notable example was just recently (within the last 2 mths) where the titel company had to go back after a year and get everything redone-it was a big mess trust me on that one.

Glad to see you posts Sylvia I always enjoy getting educated by my peers that I respect and admire alot.

God Bless

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 5/4/06 8:44am
Msg #117674

In my experience, the non-borrowing spouce signs the legals, mortgage and riders ONLY if the loan is for the PRIMARY residence or her/his name is listed on title.

In the case of a vacation home or rental property, owned only in the borrowers name, the non-borrowing spouce is not part of the transaction and does not HAVE to sign... they can sign but they area not required to.

NOT LEGAL ADVICE... just my experience doing signings in New Jersey.

Reply by NJ_Notary on 5/4/06 1:39pm
Msg #117773

hey JB

I agree with you 100%. I know a few very reputable real estate attorneys and title companys ( one of which wrote the licensure, regulation, and title law in nj) that will not issue a commitment or policy on the secondary home unless the spouse is on the legals as well. Their reasoning is that the spouse could get shaddy if they ever seperated and say that the second home was their primary residence at a given time. Like yourself, my understanding is that they can sign if they choose but dont have to ( unless the re attorney or TC states otherwise or wont issue a committment or policy.)

as always ....
THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE, I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY. YOU CAN LEGAL ADVICE FROM YOUR OWN ATTORNEY.... just my experience doing signings in New Jersey.

Ok disclaimer is done.

Have a good one JB

God Bless.

Reply by sue_pa on 5/4/06 9:34am
Msg #117687

I am not in PA but I think my answer goes for every state. We do not in our job determine who signs what. Sign as typed is what we do. That said, if I had a good client and I thought their paperwork was wrong I MIGHT ask them about it, depending on the circumstances. I see things every day of the week that I disagree with (especially nonborrowing spouse/marital issues) but I follow the company's guidelines, not what I know is correct. Where would it stop if we are to all of a sudden determine with absolutely no background paperwork in front of us the legal compliance issues of marital and nonmarital rights. Even with that paperwork in front of us it's not up to us to determine who signs what. I believe that's the underwriter's job. If it doesn't look right, why hasn't the title company contacted the underwriter/lender prior to us arriving at the table? I certainly understand what you're saying about us working in a non perfect business. But, ABSOLUTELY not ever our job to determine these type issues, in my opinion. I don't care how much experience someone has. And, while I disagree with many on their very broad scopes of defining UPL, I think a notary/signing agent deciding willy-nilly at the table individual's marital rights is crossing the line, no grey area involved. What other issues do we determine are right? I see padded HUDs all the time with fees that I know do not exist (Release recording fees come immediately to mind) - do I change them because they're not right? Chase doesn't require nonborrowing spouses to sign the TIL, on some of their loans, but not all - who am I to decide which loans those are? NOT OUR JOB and you should be sticking up for your notary who did as directed - sign as typed.