Posted by Anonymous on 5/28/06 11:45pm
Msg #122928

Opinions on this situation

Did a signing several weeks ago for a company I have a long history with and a good relationship. Received a call recently that they cannot find the mortgage, although the loan has already funded. The mortgage had to have been there for funding to happen, so it's lost somewhere internally. They have asked if I can return to BO and have her sign an additional mortgage copy, dated and notarized with the previous dates - an exact duplicate of the first one, so it can be recorded. I have no reason to suspect any sinister motives; they have always been forthright and fair with me, and it does seem like it has genuinely been lost. I expressed a concern about backdating, and they said I would only be creating a copy of what I had already done. My first question is: Is that true?

Also, does it matter when the mortgage is dated regarding recording? Finally, could I not just attach a loose ack notarizing her signature for the current date, but the ack notes the original date of the doc? I'd really like to have a proper and legal resolution to this - TIA.

Reply by hcampersFL on 5/28/06 11:50pm
Msg #122930

Have you checked with the county recorders office yet? Just to see if it was already recorded?
There must be a solution for this problem. I'm sure that this isn't the first time that this has ever happend.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 5/29/06 10:06am
Msg #122965

And if it did record...

Why not just order a certified copy from the Recorder's Office?

The original is usually what gets recorded (in AZ), so they don't keep the original at the office anyway.

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/29/06 8:13am
Msg #122946

A somewhat similar situation happened to me a few years ago when 'recorded docs' were making the transition from legal size to letter size. Original Mtg./DOT was done on legal size & was not acceptable in that county. (I told 'em; they ignored me!) A few weeks later, I was requested to go back & obtain signatures on a 'new' letter size Mtg./DOT. No backdating. It was signed, notarized & dated for the day I was there. B's already had the money, too. And, yes, I received full fee both times.

Reply by PA_NOTARY on 5/29/06 9:43am
Msg #122961

PLEASE READ THIS

There is no reason to back date in this situation. The mortgage can be signed again with todays date and the NOTE still be in good standing. It is only for the benefit of the lender that you would back date but truely it is neither here nor there LEGALLY.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/29/06 9:49am
Msg #122963

Re: PLEASE READ THIS

PA - do you think this is one of those situations where underwriting requires everything in apple pie order for the purpose of selling the loan? They lost the DOT and now need it to be perfect so that it can be sold? I am not endorsing backdating, folks...just trying to answer this question in my mind.

Reply by GWest on 5/29/06 10:32am
Msg #122970

Why would you want to take the liability for their error? I would not backdate a notary under any circumstances.

Reply by Bruce Johnson on 5/29/06 12:35pm
Msg #122985

It sure would be nice if the "powers to be" got together and came up with a form similair to:
" This is a clerical duplicate signed form. Original was signed:_____________. " and then the rest of the notaral clauses. Then no back dating, and you would have proper signing...


I know this would require an oath either by the bo or the notary that this is in fact true. It just seems that there SHOULD be SOME LOGICAL way to get a correctly and proper backdated form, if one was in fact signed and lost, or to correct some minor issue (wrong signature etc)

Just food for thought...
Bruce

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/29/06 2:36pm
Msg #122998

Re: Opinions on this situation - Bruce

Bruce - what you have just done is used your brain to exercise it's ability to think about matters of legal import. Sound the alarm! Even lawyers know better than to do that where loan signing is concerned.

There is a better way to do every single bit of this stuff...however, we must not even consider it for fear that the UPL police will rap on our door and remove a fingertip.

As a lawyer notrotter who seldom posts here anymore would tell you, the first thing you must do is to forget anything you know about the law. Follow the loan signing instructions to a T. Know your notary laws cold so that ou don't bend those and look straight ahead at all times.

This is partly in jest, and partly for all new ones to the industry. What makes sense is of no relavance. Alas...learn to love saying, "Please sign here when you are ready." Out of boredom, you could learn to deliver it in different accents...different tones, etc.

Also, do not take this to mean that you have said anything wrong! Just adding my comments...the nice people here have been kind enough to put up with me that way when I come in here to my computer to take a break...please disregard most of what I say.

Your contributions are nice. Glad you are here.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/29/06 12:43pm
Msg #122987

Re: Opinions on this situation - call your SoS and ask them

if you can do it. That would be an interesting conversation.

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/29/06 1:19pm
Msg #122991

"I expressed a concern about backdating, and they said I would only be creating a copy of what I had already done. My first question is: Is that true?"

You really have to ask this? Of course it's not true. You're attesting to the fact that the person appeared in front of you on a certain date. While they may have also appeared in front of you on a previous date, that is not the signature that you're acknowledging. It would be different if you were correcting an acknowledgement for a previously signed document (which is not legal to do in some states), but you're not; you're acknowledging a brand new signature and must treat it as such.

Isn't it just remarkable how these lenders and title company employees happen to know so many nuances and exceptions to notary law, and that these exceptions just coincidentally always happen to be to their benefit?

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/29/06 11:42pm
Msg #123020

Two issues as to dating.

Your notarization should be as of the current date.
The mortgage should, however. bear the same date as the note.
The standard note has language similiar to:
"This note is secured by a mortgage DATED THE SAME DAY AS THIS NOTE"
(emphasis added) The standard mortgage states somthting like:
"This mortgage secures the payment of a note OF EVEN DATE" (emphasis added)
If the date of the note and morgage (the date stated in the document,
not necessarily the actual date of execution)
do not agree then the mortgage will not be valid.

Reply by janCA on 5/30/06 9:57am
Msg #123045

Same situation 6 months ago.

I had this same thing happen about six months ago. The DOT that had been signed a year prior had become lost. I was emailed a new DOT, can't really remember the actual date on the deed but had it re-signed and notarization date reflected the new date of the signing. Was never asked to backdate to the original date of signing.