Posted by LS_Ca on 5/1/06 2:13pm
Msg #116999
eNotarization
Good afternoon all, I am gathering information regarding the benefits of providing eNotarization as a signing agent. I wanted to know if others think this service. Will be widely used? Are lenders progressing towards a paperless loan process.
Any information would be appreciated.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/1/06 2:32pm
Msg #117001
The opinions are here if you want to get on with your reading...maybe you'll gather some new ones...anyhow, a search on these keywords should reveal info if you use "enjoa" and "enotarization" and "e-notarization."
I asked this very question about two years ago. In the two years since then, I have learned very little except...it's still a crapshoot as to which way the wind will blow IMHO. Yes, it will eventually come to us, some feel that the clerks will not be ready for awhile, the problem is knowing WHAT software to get, what gear to get. No matter what the NNA says, IMHO they definitely don't have the market cornered yet, but I could be wrong. Good luck. Brendatx
| Reply by Anonymous on 5/1/06 3:06pm
Msg #117004
Well, I know my opinion doesn't count cause I'm not in CA, but in OR you can't use them because of the requirement for bound consecutive pages. So they won't be used here.
Diane
| Reply by PAW on 5/1/06 4:53pm
Msg #117011
It's not just about the journal, it's about the notarization of digital signatures on digital documents.
Florida and Utah have already created statutes authorizing "electronic notaries"who would certify digital signatures. These became Florida statutes section 117.20. However, Florida repealed this section in 1998. To become an electronic notary, the person would have to be commissioned as a regular notary and be issued a private/public key by a certification authority. The Florida Secretary of State would "amend" their certificate. Note, that such notaries would still have to have the person personally appear and keep a sequential journal of all acts performed (if required).
Arizona also established an electronic notarization. (Title 41, Chapter 2, Article Three, Arizona Revised Statutes.) Arizona’s statute provides for notarization in the presence of the "electronic notary. An electronic notarized document prepared in the presence of the notary is required by the statute to contain:
1. the document
2. time and date stamp
3. an electronic notary token
4. signature or mark affixed to the document by the signer
5. date that the electronic notary commission expires
Federal legislation known as the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act (E-Sign Act), which was digitally signed by President Clinton on June 30, 2000 and took effect on October 1, 2000. What makes this bill so notable for notaries is Section 101(g), which recognizes the validity of electronic notarization.
The passage of legislation removes legal barriers to electronic commerce. Business continues to transcend time and space. Strangers do business with strangers locally and globally. The need to know that individuals are who they claim to be is critical in the business world. This legal setting provides a framework for the inclusion of electronic transactions. It is imperative that notaries be there to fill their role within this framework.
The recent state and federal statutes concerning electronic transactions stemmed from governmental recognition of the significance of electronic commerce on the Internet. In 1999, the Uniform Law Commissioners distributed what is known as the Uniform Electronic Transaction Act (UETA). The basic objective of UETA is to ensure that e-transactions are as enforceable as traditional paper transactions. UETA is related to the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC), but specifically addresses “electronic records and electronic signatures relating to a transaction.”
| Reply by Colonel_IA on 5/1/06 9:24pm
Msg #117076
Of course, it's legal. But there's been no requests for it noted by NSA on NotRot. Have you ever done an enotarizarion PAW?
| Reply by PAW on 5/2/06 7:24am
Msg #117109
I've never done one ...
... nor have I ever seen one done. I've only been reading all the literature on "how" it is to be done, and what the implications were/would be to the bank (when I was working at the bank).
The business environment will probably, in my guess, be first to move on the enotarization for electronic documents that do not require state intervention (e.g., recording). The first step is already in place and has been for many years, with Veri-sign and Thwarte and other authentication companies.
| Reply by Colonel_IA on 5/1/06 4:52pm
Msg #117010
If it wasn't for the NNA you would never hear about enotarization. The NNA is the only place I see enotarization hype. Have you read about it elsewhere? In my 5-1/2 years as a full-time NSA no company has ever even asked if I had enotarization capability. It's a long way down the road in my opinion. And if it ever happens the companies are going to have to provide me with leased equipment or drastically rise fees if I'm buying the equipment. Besides the cost of equipment, from what I've read, closings will take much more time.
| Reply by BobbiCT on 5/1/06 7:08pm
Msg #117041
Here's another company that will sell you ESigning
Check out www.wwnotary.com .
World Wide Notary will convince you that DigiSign is the way to go and it's your "must buy" to survive in the loan signing industry. It IS a nice site.
At $5 maximum per notarization, companies now offering $85 for Edocs, I am not yet investing hundreds of dollars in software, hardware, and annual licensing fees for something not one lender or title company has told he I must have to do business with them.
The hard sell seems to be coming from the businesses that invested thousands in R&D to come up with the many DIFFERENT software programs for Esigning and now want to recover their initial investment. Call a few of your local title insurance companies and ask them if they are using or plan to use within the next six month an Esigning software program for paperless loan transactions. Ask a couple of lender/banks.
If the consumer is happy with paper and prefers NOT to Esign, it will still be paper. Personally, with my bifocals, I prefer to read 120 pages on paper, not a computer screen. Of course, maybe the lender will Email the loan documents and settlement figures to the borrower two full business days in advance. The borrower will print his own set, or read it online, discuss issues with the lender. Everything is perfect and the NSA walks in with a signature pad and laptop, ids the signer, person signs and ten minutes later whoosh through hyperspace goes the fully executed loan document package. Have to run - just saw a pig fly by my window.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/1/06 7:48pm
Msg #117051
Re: Here's another company that will sell you ESigning
*Have to run - just saw a pig fly by my window.*
Well, I hear that George Edwards road a pig home yesterday!
No wait, that was how to spell geography...actually George was flying that pig!!
| Reply by Howie35CT on 5/2/06 7:04am
Msg #117107
Re: Here's another company that will sell you ESigning
Very witty commentary, Bobbi! What percentage of lenders do you believe are actually using the Digisign software? The NNA's monthly magazine is touting this as the wave of the future, but nowhere have I encountered the need for esigning (yet). BTW, where in CT are you?
| Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/2/06 11:43am
Msg #117168
Re: Here's another company that will sell you ESigning
I glanced at the www.wwnotary.com site mentioned by BobbiCT. I noticed, among other things, the site does not offer a free software package to read and verify the signatures of documents prepared with their system. This would be like Adobe not offering Acrobat Reader, and instead requiring everyone who wants to read a PDF to spend hundreds of dollars for a software package like full-fledged Acrobat. A digitally signed document is only signed when it is in digital form; once it is put on paper, it is just an unofficial copy. Therefore, no one who does not buy the www.wwnotary.com software for hundreds of dollars can have an official copy of any document signed with their system.
To use a horse racing analogy, www.wwnotary.com has scratched.
| Reply by Marlene/USNA on 5/2/06 2:38pm
Msg #117221
Re: Here's another company that will sell you ESigning
DigaSign imports documents in many formats, such as Word, PDF, etc. The document designer creats the document in his/her own software and imports it into DigaSign. A "reader" is not needed.
What you're paying for with DigaSign software is the ability to package documents (title co, lenders will like this), and custom-place where initials, signatures, and notary certificates should appear on a page. The customer and the notary sign the signing pad once and then "place" their initials/signatures as required. And you're also paying for doing this, and much more, via the Internet, so all you have on your end is registration software.
| Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/2/06 5:30pm
Msg #117292
Re: Here's another company that will sell you ESigning
Perhaps you're right, maybe a reader isn't needed. What I could not figure out from looking at the web page, if you start with, for example, an unsigned deed in PDF format, and go through the signature process, what do you end up with. How do you read and verify the finished deed?
| Reply by Marlene/USNA on 5/3/06 10:11am
Msg #117409
Re: WWNotary
It's a Web interface. You (notary) log in to the Internet and open the "package" using a secure key and password that has been given to you by the document creator (such as the title company or lender). The package contains the documents, from one document to how ever many it takes.
The borrower sits with you, and both of you see the unsigned deed (for your example) on the computer monitor. The document creator has situated the places where the borrower has to sign and/or initial, and has situated an acknowledgment appropriate for your state (from a list of up-to-date acknowledgments supplied by WWNotary).
The borrower signs/initials using a signing pad, and you sign and apply your digital certificate. An entry is made in your electronic journal. You save the file and log out.
The title co then logs in to DigaSign, opens the package, and reviews the signing. If everything is okay, it is sent to the recorder of deeds, or printed and delivered to the recorder in the usual manner.
If you have any other questions, you can email me directly at [e-mail address]. This thread is getting buried in the pages!
| Reply by PAW on 5/3/06 3:04pm
Msg #117517
Great if it is completely correct, but ...
In the electronic version, how would a notary attach a loose certificate? Or how would a notary correct an existing certificate to make it state compliant? How would a notary modify an existing certificate to show correct information, such as in a split signing when only one signer's signature is notarized per certificate? How would a notary ensure that the certificate or document is not modified in any way after the fact? (I know the authentication would fail, but who would be notified of such a failure? Who would be responsible for investigating and prosecuting?)
IMO, there are still tons of questions that need answers before this thing takes off. Unfortunately, these are the same questions that were raised 4 years ago and were never addressed then.
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